The Vancouver Canucks just acquired Elias Lindholm in exchange for a package of picks that included Andrei Kuzmenko and a 1st round pick. While this is, ostensibly, an all-in move for the Canucks, it might actually be a terrible move for their present and future.
@Vancouver Canucks
27 Comments
shit ahh take
Kuzmenko might not be as great as he could be, but its insane to think hes worth nothing or even a negative. The people who are for the trade from the canucks pov keep downplaying everything.
"The first round pick might as well be a second round" – that assumes canucks goes all the way and even then, its still a first round pick, its not suddenly a second round pick.
"The fourth round pick/Jurmo/Brzwestewicz is pretty much a nothing burger" – even low value things is still value. Do you ignore sales tax? It's only a small amount compared to your purchase.
Best case scenario, Canucks gets the cup and in hindsight can say the deal was great. The Flames still get a great deal in that case.
Worst case scenario, Canucks barely get far in playoffs (ignoring that not even making it is still possible, though unlikely now) and in hindsight trading future drafts for immediate needs that doesnt end up helping is always a loss. The Flames gain even more than expected and laugh their way to the bank.
Also, reminder that trading draft picks for immediate boosts is exactly how Canucks got into the playoff slump.
Ya bud, really bad takes here.
Its all about fit, you think Ritherford and Alvin just did this willy nilly? He is exactly what the Canucks need for this year, they didnt give up any of their best prospects and they have flexibility with his contract expiring for next year. It all FITS.
Is this video a joke?
We got cap space for this year and next moving a player who didn't fit, moved a 20+ draft pick, sold high on a prospect and didn't lose Hoglander/Podkolzin/Willander/Lekkerimaki. Nothing that we can't live without.
Interesting take. I don't think the results of this trade will be known for another 3 to 4 years, once we know who the first round pick will be and whether Hunter becomes a top 4 D. Apparently Flames scouting was high on him so we'll see. Lindholm is a very effective player when he's engaged and cares about what's happening on the ice. For the last 1.5 years, he has coasted along after all his buddies all left the team and he has been pretty non-existent for this year and most of last. It has been reported in the Calgary media that he wanted a contract of somewhere in the 9 mil range to sign long term with Calgary, which is not something the Flames would do. Whether he demands that still after the terrible year he was having in Calgary remains to be seen. This reminds me of when Sven Baerschi was traded for a 2nd rd pick, which eventually became Rasmus Andersson. Clearly the Flames were the luckier recipients of that deal, so we'll have to wait and see on this one.
Tocchet tried to change the player in Kuzmenko and the confused player lost his confidence. Hopefully, he will regain his confidence and bring forth his highly creative play. I wish him well in Calgary.
Lindholm might turn it around but has been terrible
Here is why I think this is a pretty hollow analysis and a reason why you can't just rely on an advanced stats.
you are comparing metrics between a player playing top 6 minutes almost 20 minutes a night on a bad team to a player barely able to crack 15 minutes a night on the best team in the league, that's been healthy scratched multiple times.
Both of these players were round pegs trying to fit into square holes, Kuzy was never going to be a value contract next season with Tochett as coach, Lindholm was never going to thrive in Calgary without playing with elite playmakers.
Kuzy was trending towards if not already a negative asset, it's actually a positive that they took him, it gives them a shot a re-signing Lindholm and if not, they free up almost 6 mill to retain their other pending UFA ( lafferty, Joshua, Cole, Myers, Blueger, Zardorv )
Hunter may be good, but his junior success may not translate to the NHL, it might, but it would be hard to argue he was a top 5 prospect within the organization.
you have to ignore the eye test and context of ice time, to manufacture a situation where Lindholm isn't an in-season upgrade for the playoff run.
A first, 4th (possible 3rd), a player who will probably never play in the NHL, and your 6th best prospect for a bonefided top 6 forward who is also a clear upgrade to your only underperforming forward in first place at the all-star break, plus 5.5 mill in cap flexibility in the offseason is a clear win
This is the best analysis of the trade that I've seen yet.
Terrible take.
You failed to mention that Kuzmenko was the only Canuck forward who is a minus player.
Kuzmenko is a Plug and cant play defense for the life of him. The team got rid of 3rd round prospects that will never play for the Canucks lol. Kuz was benched 5 times for good reasons. Oh and that 1st round pick is basically a 2nd in a lackluster draft. The $5.5 cap space they are getting after the season is going to be used to resign EP40. Kuzmenko would have been benched every game in the playoffs lol.
Let's wait and see what happens in the playoffs first
If they make it to the final, have a riot police squad on standby.
Lindholm is a perennial Selke candidate dude I think this is a pretty good deal for Vancouver. And Kuz is more expensive for
Less
Points and no defensive capabilities.
Why even make a video, if you know nothing about the teams you talk about? This is a win/win for both sides. This year's draft is shallow after the first 10 picks. That Hunter kid might not ever make the chel. Jurmo probably won't even make it to Abbotsford. Kuzey is a one dimensional player. So tell me again how the canucks lost this?
We’ll know July 1st if Vancouver lost this deal. Did they make a deep run in the playoffs, and did Lindholm re-sign? If the answer to both is “no”, then it’s going to be tough to swallow how much they gave up. If either one is “yes” it remains a good deal for both sides.
I feel you need to watch Kuzmenko more. While Canucks fans love Kuzzy, it is more of a personal thing. He is a great guy. He has struggled as a hockey player this season. If Kuzzy can gel with someone on the Flames, and you put him with two very defensive minded players, it may work, but you have to put up with his mistakes. If he isn't scoring piles of goals, he is a detriment to your team. Last season under Bruce, it was all offense and defence be damned. It suited Kuzzy. Hopefully he does well in Calgary. I hope he does! But Lindholm is a solid player, He can play with anyone and play well. Kuzzy cannot. You need to be very careful with how he is used and there is no guaranty that you can find the right mix for him.
Very well thought out. Your opinion will not be popular, but it gets one thinking: Should Kuzmenko have been valued as a cap dump? To me, the answer is "no". That there changes the entire calculus of the trade.
That said, the context of the trade is more important than the numbers you bring forth. Kuzmenko's possession metrics are with the Canucks. There, Tocchet tried to shelter him and put him in positions to score. He was not relied upon as a 2way stalwart. Much different than the assignment given to Lindholm. It has been Lindholm's worst year ever, maybe. Very low S%/PDO. So it's difficult to imagine the possession metrics will carry over as is in Vancouver. And if they increase, well, then you're not worried.
Kuzmenko as the cap dump is the threshold though. I'm surprised Chicago didn't value him more than that because if they had, maybe a precursor deal to them would have been better.
Yup. It will cost them a VERY short summer.
False equivalency…. Systems being played, and quality of linemates has a lot to do with how good a players stats are, you simply can’t have them in a vacuum. While I was hoping against hope that Kuzy would turn things around, it simply wasn’t possible for him to play Tocchets style. Lindholm is a better two way player, and hooking up with fellow Swede Pettersson will pump Lindholms stats up as well. If Kuzy is able to thrive in Calgary, I’ll be happy for him, I love his attitude and his smile is infectious. Calgarians will love him.
So now watch Vancouver fans as your worse nightmare begins to unfold.
Kuz will play with say Micheal Backland, Huberdeau or Kadri Hubby and begin to tecieve Hubby's legendary passes. It's going to be exciting as we move forward.
Rink Rat has it right, Lindy is awful. And your going to find out why.
Calgary robbed Vancouver. But it gets worse as we see the draft picks move into a player playing under a youth coach like Ryan Huska and elevated both their games like Zary.
I'm definitely excited to see them all play this yr! Good luck Vancouver. It may take Calgary a bit of time, but they will be back in the hunt very soon.😅
I find your lack of faith disturbing. Lindholm is free, the Canucks can easily provide him the support he needs to demonstrate his quality before UFA, something the Flames could not.
lol twitterlytics analysis. The most useless kind.
I should have stopped watching this video after you compared the advanced stats of a first line player and a guy who was basically playing fourth line minutes.
And not mentioning the cap space for this and next year is the icing on the cake.
I hate that this comment pushes you in the algorithm because this is a low effort, click bait video.
Well…if frickin'' Monahan went for a 1st and a 3rd. We basically paid the Flames extra assets to eat Kuzmenko's $5.5mil caphit for this and next year. The problem with Kuz is that if he's not providing offence, he can't do much else. You can't ask him to play centre, win FOs, kill penalties, and not even scoring goals on the PP this season…