The life story of Lawrence Trent | IM, commentator, manager of Caruana, trainer and more

The life story of Lawrence Trent | IM, commentator, manager of Caruana, trainer and more

Lawrence uh it’s good to see you here at the Wiis house nice to be here uh you know when I started my sort of Journalism career and um chess Bas India began mhm uh I was following that all the things that you were doing you were commentating in fact at the world

Championship in 2013 you were the official commentator along with Tanya rames suzan mhm you also at some point were managing Karana that’s right yep I was uh you have done many video courses for chess base chess 24 uh I’m sure for some other yep also maybe chessable I’m

Not sure chessable I’ve done a couple of courses as well yeah so and what are you up to right now great question and uh that’s a great question I also want to go back in time and sort of understand your life because you’ve done so many things like as a dynamic personality in

The world of you’re also an IM IM Yeah well yeah GMS that’s true yeah I I mean I’ll be I’ve been taken by surprise I didn’t expect uh the the life interiew well um where to start I mean uh yeah so uh chess is still a big part of my life um

As you said uh Saga uh 2013 was a massive year for me um I’d already been commentating quite a lot I was just actually talking to a few people here Frederick friedel Frederick friedel I met years and years and years ago um when I started doing my chess space DVDs

I think my first chess space DVD was probably about 20 years ago now really uh yeah I think a very very very long time ago um I’ve done about about 10 or 12 chess based DVDs always enjoyed going to Hamburg I lived in Hamburg yes um I moved to Hamburg in

2014 because that’s when chess 24 started and I had a kind of full-time role at chess 24 as a Content producer doing commentary with Yan Gustafson mostly at the beginning and then uh doing courses and the like and as you said in 2013 it was a it was a

Breakthrough year for me because it was the candidates in London which which I commented and um the world championship in Chennai and it was an honor to go to Chennai and of course my dear co- commentator Tanya is somewhere here um currently commentating there in the barn

Commentating I’ll say hello to her so that was 10 years ago now oh more oh my God we’re in 2024 more than 10 years ago that’s of course a very memorable event because it marked the start of a new era in chess and Carlson era as we like to

Call it I think I think it was you who you or t maybe someone who said those like words you know it’s the start of a new era and it’s it’s very popular it it well it really was I mean you know and Magnus has dominated this game for years

Right uh as you also correctly said um I had the opportunity to work with fabbi and um we partnered for a few years and that was very successful and we’re still on great terms I just saw him and we you know we we are very good friends and um

And yeah and uh you know I’m still uh doing a little bit of Chess but I’ve got life things happen and uh sometimes you change direction and I’m actually here with my uh my I want I don’t want to say work colleague really my boss um where I’m now working for a

Digital asset fund uh so I’ve gone from the world world of Chess to the world of investing and and finance and that’s not a completely unusual route for some chess players um but working for a fund of course is a is a full-time job and completely different uh but I I enjoy it

And it’s a it’s a good company and good team and Johannes who is who is here with me who has a very important role working for one of uh Germany’s entrepreneurial families he’s actually a big chess player big chess fan and um the the reason I’m working for that

Company is because um I didn’t apply for the company I didn’t apply for a new job at all he recognized me thanks to chessbase uh because he was a big client of Chess Bas has a lot of DVDs and he saw me one day in Berlin and he said are

You Lawrence Trent and I went yeah and he said I’m a big fan of your big fan of your DVDs big fan of your courses I said that’s really nice and then we just started talking and then he told me about his businesses and after some more conversations it was clear that there

Might be you know an opportunity to work together so I’m doing that full-time now um and but I’m still you know I still have some students which is nice and of course I still watch the tournaments and we work uh in Berlin uh and we had a

Meeting in Hamburg so it made sense to to come up here to vison house as well and it’s so beautiful I mean it’s so professional here that that’s the thing that I think um is most uh you know uh most impressive and it’s it’s so clean and there’s a perfectionist element um

And there are small touches uh your uh viewers have probably seen like inside they have their own cabins and all of these like it’s really it’s a really nice feeling so um and and you know uh Mr Butner who uh you know is clearly a big fan of Chess 960 and chess

And his um intentions to uh to create more tournaments and a tour I mean it’s only good news so yeah that’s I’ve spoken there for five minutes without talking but that’s kind of a summary of things wonderful I I’ll Deep dive into few of the points one one

Of them is that you at some point wanted to become a GM I think you were actively pursuing it MH uh so what happened there yeah great question well the truth is that um okay so uh when I was uh in my early 20s I was pretty much near enough 2500 yeah

2470 right no more I was I was actually at one point I think my live rating was about 24.95 so I was really really close I was playing tournaments around Europe uh Hungary Spain France you know the typical stuff and you know clearly you know I was half you know half decent and

At some point it became I you know I just wanted to like get a job as well like get some work and it’s tough traveling around just playing tournaments you’re broke all the time you have just you know you have a disappointing result and then you lose a

Few points and it’s like and at some point and I just said well maybe I should get a job and in hindsight I probably made a very bad decision because I was still super young in my 20s um I was so close to getting the GM title

And I just didn’t do it and I did it the wrong way around and I would actually recommend any young players who are in my position um if you’ve got the opportunity to to go for a title or you know achieve a goal and you’re still very young do

That don’t don’t feel like you’re obligated to go into the world of work cu the world of work will always be there but you won’t always have the opportunity to get your titles that’s the point and now well I’m still in the same situation but I’m 100 points lower I’m 100 points

Lower rated so already to get the rating is a big ass I can feel you because I’m in a you’re in the same boat right so so I I know it’s not easy at the same time you want want to maybe do it but it’s like dedicating a year or so of your

Life right so basically the idea is that at some point I will have a year sabatical I will yeah I will do it because Saga we can talk about well because it’s the it’s the only true personal goal uh from in in a in a chess sense

From the Chess World it’s the only thing that I feel is missing for me to be completely content with my adventure in this world I mean I’ve got no um I’m not uh uh deceiving myself in any I’m not going to be 2650 I’m not going to be

World champion I’m not going to do some crazy things but getting the title I think is in my reach and it’s a still a prestigious title and it’s um it’s something that would make my parents happy especially my dad and it would make it would make me happy it’s the

Thing that’s missing really I’ve had the the privilege of doing some wonderful things in this world managing Fabby commentating the best tournaments meeting some of the best players ever being in that orbit um for so many years it’s a privilege and an honor and you know the only thing missing from

A you know after all the years playing is is this and I I have to try it I have to do it uh otherwise I I won’t I won’t actually be able to rest easy um if I if I don’t so let’s see I I don’t know when

That will happen I know there are a lot of people that still want to bet against me so when I put it on Twitter a lot of people like how much do you want to bet that you won’t do it so all of you guys

You like to put it on Twitter I’ll put it on Twitter I I I’ll do it I’ll do it cuz I I’ll do it I do it for the I’ll do it for the fans but anybody who wants to bet against me the bank account will be

Open one day in the future and uh we can we can uh come to some arrangement but look uh it’s a young man’s game it’s clear it’s becoming more and more difficult of course uh but it’s still possible it’s still possible I’ll need to do a lot of work a

Lot of work but um I think it’s something I got to try I’ve got to try let’s see nothing’s guaranteed but I think I can do it I think I can do it do you feel this that let’s say when you were commentating yeah you would be one

Of the best in the world only then you could be at the world championship at candidates I’ve listened to your commentary it’s fun f is so much informative there’s a flow to it yeah and now you are not commentating yeah um is it like you you start something you

Become really good at it and then you decide okay I want to switch is that kind of the thing that happens to you or is it’s not intentional yeah I mean as I said I kind of have changed career path unintentionally if I’m honest

Um but uh look I I had many good years commentating um I would still do some events I mean I’m not ruling it out uh it’s possible that I come back and do some events um if somebody wants me even an organizer that I’m very close to

Wants me uh but clearly there are now a pool of very talented uh younger I should say commentators who do a fantastic job um you know especially the you know the guys from chess24 chess.com uh who are who are great um yeah there there there are loads of

You know there’s well there’s good competition now as well that’s the other thing that was different when I was doing the commentary stuff there weren’t so many young guys doing it but now there are quite a lot and uh fair play um but you know who knows what the

Future holds maybe I’ll do a few events we’ll see we’ll see what happens I don’t know coming to your relationship with Fabby as a manager this is a very U sort of a soft subject also it’s a personal one because many times when you work with someone as a manager it’s a very

Close relationship yeah how was that experience for you what did you learn from it and uh because nowadays we see many players having managers but back then perhaps it was not that common was it yeah um there were a few so Magnus uh was kind of with as Espen and his

Father um you know there was some some other Sergey had uh Sergey had a manager I think um maybe there were a few others but it was kind of quite lowkey my time with fabbi was overall a very positive one uh we achieved a lot he

Um he nearly qualified to play the World Championships when I was with him he just missed out in the Moscow candidates yes round he needed to he needed to beat kayak in with black um because of the tiebreak rules of how it worked even though they were

Even on points so it didn’t work out but there was a lot of preparation that went into that and uh I I became very close with Fabby and I became close with um especially rustam who was his coach at the time and we went everywhere together and

Um you know as you probably saw when I came in here you know we we give each other a hug it’s you know a lot of time has passed that ended in 2016 I believe uh so it’s already been seven eight years it’s incredible to think um uh and

I as I said you know I wish Fabby all the best I’ve always rooted for Fabby and uh it what I learned was um well there were a few things perhaps perhaps in many ways you know when we first separated it was difficult because we had grown so close together it was

More than just a sort of uh a a client business kind of relationship it was much more than that it was much more personal you know Fabby I saw as you know a brother almost um and so so it was tough at at the beginning uh but I’ve never been one to um

To hold a grudge uh or anything like that um perhaps in retrospect perhaps we got too close maybe it was it was too uh too intimate uh in in in the sense of you know uh it was it was it was a personal relationship as well right um it wasn’t

Just me trying to find sponsors for him or me trying to organize the best conditions for tournament it was much more than that I you know I tried to be his older brother basically and open him up to things in life um which was actually one of the

Objectives of the partnership it wasn’t just a it wasn’t just about you know business it was it was about growth so when I see fabbi now I see him flourishing like he is he’s he’s you know such a well-rounded guy you know when I when I started working with him

Theoretically I mean he was still a young guy in his very early 20s and coming out of his shell so it’s great to see him now uh obviously he then qualified to play Magnus in the world championship didn’t win but he’ll be back um he’s already back as he’s shown

Recently back to world number two nobody really ever doubted his his quality and his talent so yeah so um it but it is tough uh I guess finding that balance is really tough between you know being to personal and keeping it as a business uh relationship

That’s one thing that I think in the future if I were to ever work with somebody again I would try and find a bit more of an optimal balance that’s the key takeaway I can actually understand this because somewhere I mean I work with my wife together we have

This working relation because we work for the same like we founded together the company but we also are husband and wife and at some point there are these uh things which get personal at that point then rather than having an objective Viewpoint so it’s uh it’s not

Easy um but it also is very beautiful when such a relationship blooms because then there are no transactional thoughts it’s more like it’s flowing that’s true and I can tell you this that on some of his big victories uh you know uh tournament victories or or specific games um The

Pride I had was one of a father actually that’s that’s how how I I’m not a father but it’s how I I I believe I would feel seeing you know somebody succeed uh my my son succeed let’s say it was real true un unadulterated pure Pride um

So yeah so I but I understand completely what you mean finding finding the balance is tough but you know we’re all here still we’re all doing fine so that’s the important thing I guess but was there a particular reason why you decided to work with him

You saw potential in him or what well the the predominant reason actually was I met him I had already known him for a few years because I was commentating on some of the big tournaments and met him at the Granda chess classic uh that was

In B Bon I met him at London and there was at some point he just had this phenomenal sinkfield cup performance and he was world number two and he was raid 2840 or something insane and he just didn’t have a kind of team or a brand at all and actually it was a

Dave Norwood TOP English GM he said you know what why don’t you try and help Fabby and I said actually that’s not a bad idea and i’ had been working in in London for a while at that time because I wasn’t just commentating

I had a day job as well and I thought do you know what he’s so likable he’s such a nice guy he’s such a talent why can’t we you know try and build up his profile a little bit so that’s what I did I approached him and his parents and his

Dad in particular and I said let’s try and you know get the get Fabby the support he deserves because he didn’t have any it was crazy it was 2840 he had no sponsors no support not not not the support network like he has now and so you know uh one thing led to

Another and uh that’s how it all evolved and then I started to be a bit more you know Hands-On and and the relationship got closer and yeah that’s how it all developed really so yeah um but don’t no regrets at all I mean no no regrets great guy great guy thank you

For sharing this but also there are so many uh young talents I see in India and across the world who struggle in this same thing they are not as big as Fabby is but they are talented they are 2650 they are still maybe in their 15 16 so

What is it that you would advise their managers to do wow uh because because I think you face the same issue with Fab at the start right there’s you have to build up the profile you have to approach people uh yeah with Fabby it was very particular though right because

He was world number two and he just had this amazing performance everybody knew who he was and everybody thought wow he could genuinely be world champion for the guys that are in the mid 2600s it’s still really tough because you’re kind of still you’re a great player but

You’re the middle of the pack still and especially in India where you’ve already got you know your big five let’s call call it the big five now who are you know so popular and so famous and and rightly so um so I think if you’re 2650 level it’s probably still a

Bit too early to really start thinking about building a huge brand but again it depends if you offer something special you know um if you’ve got a as we say USP right if you’ve got a unique selling point whatever that may be uh uh that’s what you would have to focus on

Um you know there’s there’s just so many T so many young talents now so many brilliant players I mean I can talk about you know here you will know what I’m going to say now but bodana from the UK who uh I only met bodana last year um and I saw her

Play uh in December live I saw her play live at the um the London chess classic had a dinner this year and she was invited she just won the world under eight championships I believe it was or was it the under 10 it was either under

Eight or under 10 I can’t quite remember and um she played Blitz against a number of GMS IMS who was there and I honestly was just watching it thinking what what am I what is this that I’m seeing cuz this is just not normal she was just outplaying really good players like im’s

GMS and after that we’ve just seen her results right top woman player in the world in the European rapid I think it was yeah top top female player not not just top Junior top female beating IM holding GMS yes so she for example is a super special yes

Talent who I know you know the um you know people in the UK are trying to protect her as well but she has got for me I’ve never seen anything like it not at that age young um obviously for also you know I you know I hate say for a

Young girl to be that strong as well it doesn’t come around that often and so for somebody like her um I would certainly you know if I were her parents depending on how things developed over the next few years but if she’s already a GM by 12 or 13 I would start thinking

About future plans for you know if she really wants to make a career of this which she probably will have to I mean if she’s going to be you know if she’s got the talent to be the greatest well she’ll be the greatest UK player of all

Time that’s not even that’s not really even a question if she continues the question is is she going to be the greatest uh of alltime female and this uh video in 10 years time might be legendary or not but I’m actually going to say she is I’m actually going to put

My neck out and say if her if she is um uh nurtured and protected uh and advised in the right way what I saw was beyond magic Beyond it was a it was it was a way of it was it was just like Caro like she

Was just out playing GMS who have got 30 years of experience it didn’t nothing made sense so you know the reason I’m telling this story of course is because you asked what can young players do and USP well she has got a very specific USP right

Um the question is is is actually the market big enough to have managers for players young good players who are 2650 I’m not sure we’re there yet I don’t think the market is mature enough yet we’re not at a place where we’re a football or a tennis where even if

You’re number 150 in the world in tennis you can have a manager and you can have decent sponsorship I don’t think we’re there yet but of course let’s see how the how the sport develops let’s see where prag and gesh uh and and uh you know and vidit who you know is

Fantastic uh one of my favorite Players let’s see how far they can they can take things because we all saw how how much influence and effect vishy had um if this causes just a a major boom of Chess starting in India for example wonderful that’s great and if we suddenly get

Massive companies I mean I know prag just agreed a huge deal yes I mean I don’t know the exact figures but my understanding is it’s just a huge deal if we get loads of Corporations suddenly jumping on board and the popular and you know with the Indian Prime Minister

Tweeting about Chess and sashin T tendulka often you know tweeting about CH it’s a great moment especially in India I know I’m focusing on on that part but because that’s that’s where the that’s really where the uh the the major talents at the moment are coming from of

Course we still have others we’ve got Vincent Kar here I mean look at Vincent unbelievable player Abdu saturo is unbelievable player um it’s a question of Market maturity visibility of the game uh getting it as mainstream let’s say as as possible um and then we’ll see scal scalability scalability of the market

But it’s it’s a good time for chess that’s that’s no doubt I love how you roll your insights with also this very exciting point where you said you know I’m going to go out there and say bodhana will be the greatest women player ever I mean it’s it’s beautifully

Put uh brings a lot of excitement to the viewers I think that’s how I’m not just saying it for clicks because listen I’ve been around in this game now I you know I’m I’m approaching 4y I’ve been around in this game for a while I’ve seen great young players everywhere I’ve taught

Great players I’ve I you know I’ve been around and it’s this this um this particular player I’ve I’ve never seen what I saw it you you and you know you also in that position so where you when once you reach a certain level in chess and you you you can appreciate the

Brilliance yes you can appreciate the Brilliance and I saw something where I was me I was literally mes I was watching it I remember I was watching it had had a glass of wine obviously had had a glass of wine and I was watching

Her and I just had to watch her I had to watch her play and no other Junior in recent times has made me want to do that none even if they are now super strong IMS or or GMS none I was watching her crush

And yeah what can I say I know I’ve put my neck out and if she doesn’t become the greatest all time I’m sure in you know 20 years time I’m going to be getting hate Mouse but um no but I I I have interviewed her and I know what

You’re talking and she is special she’s very special very special um yeah so the way in which last thing I want to ask you the way in which you put this out and I with all your experience you have what do you feel about Chess 960 becoming a full-fledged

Future of Chess because clearly an ecosystem for standard chess exists but here here we are at the sort of the cusp of something new beginning really yeah with all your experience do you think this is likely to happen so it’s a really difficult thing to answer what I can say is that

Um uh there probably has to be some adjustments because there are some positions in 960 that probably objectively aren’t that good to play uh so there could be a way for example where you narrow down the the selection of positions by a certain amount and you

Which is why the name freestyle so they can actually sort of change around they can change I mean in principle I love I love the idea of just playing from a novel position with no Theory I just played myself uh last weekend I played the German chess 960 championships in

Berlin where I now live uhhuh and I was doing very well I was on three and a half out of four I didn’t win it but there were some very good players I played blue Bal I played fredman I played um I played uh shatv I played a number of of decent

GMS um Everybody enjoyed the tournament it’s so nice to wake up to a fresh position and not have to think about Theory and you know 3 hours before the game prepare so has this format got legs I would say yes is it going to overtake traditional

Chess um that much I don’t know but at some point if we get with the AI Revolution ongoing the speed at which we are solving traditional chess where are we going to be in 10 years is it going to now be a is is it

Just going to be too solved or too too too much Theory memorization where you can’t get any any creative games well if that’s the case we need a solution or an alternative and this is clearly one of them and um again I I just can’t really work out if this is going to

Overtake chess but one thing uh traditional chess but one thing I can say is I think it will be around for a very long time and it will get more popular and thanks to Tian Butner and thanks to the efforts of other people as well Magnus who’s kind of pushing it in

A big way absolutely thanks to Magnus Yan and others who are are pushing it um I can see it definitely getting more popular um it’s going to be a really difficult job for feed I think and for the chess leadership to work out where this variant fits in its overall Vision

Should it be the priority should it be secondary or otherwise should there be a different racing system for it for example I mean a racing system already is kind of necessary in my opinion right for chess 960 um so but it’s exciting and and and again we need to think of

Ways to keep This brilliant games alive and vibrant and uh Dynamic and and uh why not why not so we’ll see but great to be here um and and uh you know such a beautiful tournament such a beautiful setup so the future’s bright future is bright and

Thank you Lawrence for your time for for opening up and time for chess boxing now yeah I’ve got to I’ve got to do that now as well yeah we’ve got a that’s another thing I didn’t realize was happening but there’s a little chess boxing uh session today I’m absolutely shattered I’ve had

About 4 hours sleep but I won’t make excuses now I’ll get my ass to the training and uh enjoy a bit of uh yeah enjoy chess boxing thank you for your thank you thank

Lawrence Trent is one of the most well-known names in the world of chess. He has commentated on the Candidates and the World Championship Match 2013. He has been the manager of Fabiano Caruana in the past. He has created amazing training material for ChessBase, Chess24, Chessable and many others. He is also an IM with 2 GM norms and a peak rating of 2495. He has donned many hats in the chess world.

However, since the last few years he has been off the radar. We speak to Lawrence at Wiessenhaus about all these subjects. We try to understand from him the reason why he was so good at what he was doing and why he stopped doing what he was doing as well. Through his life story, we are sure you will find some useful nuggets of information.

Timestamps of the full interview:

0:00 – Introduction to Lawrence and welcome to the interview!
1:33 – Meeting Frederic Friedel and recording ChessBase video courses
2:24 – Commentating at the World Championship match in 2013!
3:45 – What brings Lawrence to Weisenhauss?
6:09 – Lawrence’s journey to become a GM
10:48 – Becoming the best at something and moving away from it
12:22 – Working as Caruana’s manager
16:50 – Having a personal relationship with your work partner
20:04 – Advise to managers of talented young players looking for sponsorships and opportunities
21:38 – Sivanandan Bodhana, the prodigy from UK
27:00 – Will Bodhana become the greatest female chess player of all time?
28:50 – Lawrence’s take on Chess960/Freestyle Chess
32:44 – Thank you and Chessboxing!

Video: ChessBase India

#Chess #ChessBaseIndia #LawrenceTrent #Freestylechess
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