Will Alek Manoah Bounce Back this Season? (Ep. 298)
Mark can you explain to me yes sir There She Goes hello and welcome to episode 298 of section 138 I’m your host Mark colie and we got the whole gang here we got Bryson we got Jacob we got Josh and guys we’re two days away from the Blue Jays spring
Training opener it is officially baseball season the Super Bowl is behind us and it is time to put all our focus into baseball again guys how are you doing good Mark shout out to Kansas City the Kansas City Chiefs and Taylor Swift as you mentioned the Super Bowl but uh
Anyways as you were talking about pitchers and catchers have reported the full team has reported vlat has reported Alec monoa has reported in terms of people that are going to be watched a lot throughout this spring and um interesting Vibes this year from Camp uh
And I think Bo bashad touched on that a little bit yesterday uh compared to previous years and uh we’re just at a point where we’re going to see what happens here in terms of the expectations and The Vibes around this team but of course uh they start Saturday afternoon and you know let’s
Get the ball rolling cannot wait uh for spring training this year and for the season to start and like I feel like um like you guys can relate to this Bryson and Josh as like fans of other teams I feel like Baseball spring training uh and just
Like the whole preseason is more fun than like any other sport just because like the weather’s nicer pitches report catchers report you get all like the clips and uh so it’s it’s like always a very exciting time but I feel like also just for the like the Blue Jays it’s
Kind of like a weird time because it’s like yeah we’re excited but also why are there so many uh infielders that aren’t that good like why is why have they made no moves like but okay like I guess it’s spring training what’s see what’s going
To happen but still like it I I am excited I’m excited to watch that first game on Saturday which we’ll get into but uh it’s it it is an exciting time I think if you’re a sports fan yeah I don’t know if it’s exactly the most entertaining because it’s nice
Weather but like I kind of get what you mean there uh but I’m not going to lie as much as I am excited for baseball I’m not as much excited for the Blue Jays you know this off season to me has really kind of frustrated me as I’ve
Said many times on this podcast youve brought up the infielder situation so that’s something we’re going to talk about today I know you know we’re kind of getting back into the swing of things but so far there’s just hasn’t been enough for me uh to be reju ated my joy
To be um you know look like send that to looking forward to the season the biggest thing so far is what the new cup holders that rter Center so that that’s where I’m kind of at like like you said football season’s over so I’m kind of disappointed but you know baseball I’m
Excited for the Padre’s they have a big game today against the Dodgers and uh credit to the pirates for signing Mitch Keller but that’s uh that’s about it the Blue Jays still haven’t got back my uh appreciation after this offseason so far that may have been the most depressing lead into spring training
I’ve ever heard on this podcast we’ve been doing this since 2017 and I haven’t heard anyone be as depressed the week before two days before the first Spring Training Game well that’s what happens when you go from in the sh Otani sweep Stakes to walking home with Daniel vogle
Back like like that’s where we’re at that’s the reality here I’m not in a False Image like I I I’m just saying circumstances aside there is no world in which I will not be excited for spring training Hope Springs Eternal you can have the worst team on the face of the
Planet you could be your Pittsburgh Pirates Josh and I would still be excited for the start of spring training because it’s spring training Anything Can Happen the entire season is ahead of you and bottom line you have your favorite sport back and so that’s a lot
Of fun uh I do want to start this podcast outside of The Misery by talking about a lot of the quotes that we’ve seen in the first couple days of spring training and with pitchers and catchers reporting and full Squad workout we’ve started to get some of those Golden
Spring training quotes I think the most famous spring training quote of all time will still be you saw the trailer they’re ready for the movie or whatever it was in exactly vat’s words potentially the most infamous spring training quote of all time but I do want to bring up a couple things
Three quotes in particular we saw one from bashad I guess we can start off getting your thoughts on this one he said quote I think this is the first time we’re being doubted we’ve always had high expectations I think it’s definitely a different mindset trying to prove people right than proving people
Wrong um so it seems like the Blue Jays have a different environment going in Camp and Kevin Gosman seemed to say sort of the same thing in his media availability Josh does the thought that the Blue Jays have a different mindset going into this season get you at least
A tiny bit excited shake the cynic out of you 100% honestly that’s what’s weird it’s like that was the most entertaining thing for me this offseason is finally it seems like the ego is out of the way and now they have a chip on their shoulder to me I think like you know
Playing sports like myself I always felt like I did better when I had that you know showing people kind of proving deer’s wrong mentality where it kind of pushes you a little further than it would be if you’re trying to prove somebody right you know what I mean like
You have that extra fire so I’m like I said I’m not worried about Bo Bo showed me last year that you know he could be a key part of a championship winning team my concern is with the other pieces like besides Bo and flatty we know they’re
Gonna have to reach Star level this year for this team to really have a chance and looking around them is this the mentality of the group we don’t know yet we have to see how spring training goes but if the group can kind of you know
Take this on as a whole and kind of rally behind this kind of mindset then yes that does boost my expectations that does boost my fandom that’ll give me a reason to believe in this group but right now as constructed I don’t know like we’ve seen
This team it’s the same team that hasn’t want to playoff game yet with the same exact core besides some Minor Details so if you’re just changing out the little pieces and you’re telling me that it’s a new mindset well let’s see it there you can talk we’ve seen it with Vlad right
Like you just said you can talk the talk but can you walk the walk and that’s what I’m gonna be looking for this spring yeah honestly I feel like the last Maybe couple Seasons basically ever since the 2020 season the expectations kind of got to their head like it’s okay
We get uh we get George Springer we get Kevin Gosman we get I guess Matt Chapman a couple seasons ago as well like we’ve made all these Acquisitions we are uh we’re projected to be good we expect to be good and therefore we will be good and don’t get me wrong there were
Obviously they did make the playoffs these last two seasons but they just barely got in last season like we said this last year that they only got in because what the Mariners lost and then Blue Jays Los their final two games and obviously we know what happened in the
Playoffs but I think going into this season like there is that anger I think that like damn like we’ve sucked the last two seasons in the playoffs we barely even got in everyone’s expected us like I think it was the 2022 season um MLB put out their rankings and the I
Think it was Dodgers W Blue Jays to something like that and like yeah I can I I feel like it in a way got to their heads where they’re like yeah we we’re supposed to be good and like I I don’t want to say that they were entitled but
To some extent you got to think that that was the feeling like we are supposed to be good and this season that’s not the case like I mean and to be completely honest there is kind of good reason for that like they’ made next to no uh impactful moves this
Offseason gu there were some I’m not going to sit here and say that there was nothing done but it’s not like a few the last couple offseasons where it’s like you get Ryu you get Gosman you get you know or you extend Brios you get Basset
You get all these players it’s like the core that you have is pretty much the exact same as last season minus a few players what are you going to do with it and I feel like at this point like the core knows like if you’re vlat if you’re
Bo you’re Springer even though he’s only got a couple Seasons left on his deal three including this season like if if you’re this core you know that you need to be better and at this point I feel like the the reality of MLB being like
You’re not actually as good of a team as you think you are might might be what pushes them over the edge but we will see well I I have a question for kind of Bryson and Mark here like bringing up what you just said Jacob like can you
Like I I used to be the most optimistic fan like Bryson can testify this like I used to be ultra excited I used to be Mr game one like if they won game one in the regular season like I was hype because like you know I would start
Playing the parade I was overly optimistic but has this off season been enough to Warrant like like Mark said you know spring training yes all like no matter what team it’s an exciting time for sure the sports coming back there’s lot of hope you see the young prospects
And stuff but has this team added enough for us here as a fan base to say this team is marginally better than it was last year have they done enough to prove to the fans that this team is better because you look at the additions compared to the subtractions and to me
It’s a lot closer than what it looks like from a diso perspective like to me I’m not fully there yet like you get what I mean Mark yeah like I think if you look at this team on paper it’s very easy and I mean probably I would say
It’s a worse team than it was last season just because of the people you’re losing I mean you lose Matt chadman at third base which I know may not be a big hold offensively but certainly is defensively you’re losing Brandon Bel at first base and replacing him with someone like Justin Turner potentially
In the same sort of DH first base I mean he’s probably going to play Third Base a little bit that sort of position but then you also have guys like Daniel vogelbach who we’re going to talk about Ardo Escobar who like yeah they’re minor league deals but it seems like the Jays
Are considering using them to some extent this season and I don’t know if that’s it seems like a big step down from whatever the Blue Jays had last season then you also have something I’m concerned about in the rotation depth like I don’t think the the same sort of
Depth is there as it was last season or I I guess last season there wasn’t depth as well it just didn’t come back to fight the Blue Jays because they managed to have essentially six starters healthy the entire season if you exclude monoa in that conversation and of course they
Swap between Mano and Ryu towards the end of the season but like on paper this team is worse I think the things that give you hope is the fact that vlat looks really good he looks committed monoa looks really good he looks committed and so well you may be losing
Some of those pieces and you on paper will be a worse team I think if you can get those bounceback performances it’s not going to be as Bleak as it may look on paper right now so I think that’s kind of where my optimism comes from it’s very far from an ideal offseason
You really wish the Blue Jays did more they didn’t do enough to set themselves apart from the other teams in the AL East I mean the Yankees going in getting Juan stto uh the Orioles doing everything they did having a great offseason in the Blue Jays seemed to be
Just kind of treading water and rolling it back with most of the same pieces and no new big additions so like yes there’s a lot of room for frustration and concerned but I think the the thing I’m hanging my hat on right now the optimism that I’m looking for right now now is
Coming from vlat and monoa and the hope that their bounceback will signal a bigger turn of success for the team overall yeah it’s the only optimism I guess you can have because of everything that’s happening another guy you mentioned who or another guy who was
Gone um that was of course I was here last year is another guy like Whit marfield and I mean he as much as he had a really bad or slow finish to the season um for the most part of last year he was really good of course and he was
Also for uh about a month or maybe just under a month he actually took over the leadoff spot there too um for George Springer for a little bit so you look at that too in terms of the depth and kind of the utility aspect that he brought um
That’s all gone now of course with uh when he went to and he signed with the Phillies and then you look at it again and yeah you lost Chapman which means there’s no actual third baseman I mean of course Justin Turner is going to be
There a lot of the time and of course the second Bas thing is pretty similar to what it was last year in terms of there was no there wasn’t really a set guy at second base and it appears like for the for the moment or for the start
Of the year they’re going to go based off of matchups and they’re going to go based off the hotter hand so that’s when you look at it and for me yeah like for me it was a terrible offseason um and honestly I’m actually a little bit different than you guys in terms of
Hearing what Bo basheda have to say for me like as much as for as much as I want to get behind it I still I still can’t get behind what he was saying in terms of I get it that you know now they’re being doubted like for me what I’m
Trying to say is it doesn’t make me any more optimistic unfortunately like those those comments to me don’t really move in the needle I just yeah I look off of previous years where we have seen quotes we’ve talked about it plenty of times where I have fallen for that um and Mark
You brought up the the movie one and um there was a couple last year but it wasn’t as bad as 2022 where I just I said to myself as I guess part of learning uh as a of a baseball fan or with this team as well is that I’m not
Going to be going over over the over the over the top in terms of being optimistic uh throughout spring training and throughout quotes like that so I’m more of a at the approach now I need to see it and of course that’s probably the easy answer but that’s the only answer
I’m going to give in terms of op not ruining my optim optimism around this team so we will see it is very obvious based off of how the the offseason went and how it was very underachieving is that they are banking on those top three guys in the lineup and if they don’t
Bounce back like they were last year it’s going to be a pretty similar season if not maybe a little bit worse in terms of the production like that the pressure for these guys to bounce back and I’m talking about a guy like George Springer at the lead off position and of course
I’m talking about Vladimir Guero Jr those guys need to rebound significantly or else it is going to be another frustrating season uh from start to finish I just I that I get that impression because unfortunately without those guys at the top of the lineup you
Look at the rest of the lineup and of course all due respect to them but I don’t see anybody there going above and beyond where that’s gonna make up for a guy like Vladimir guo Jr George Springer you know I wouldn’t say slumping but just not you know playing to
Expectations that we expected them to and of course we talking about Bo bashet I mean he wasn’t the issue at all last year as well he was their best hit or throw most of the year he was a lot better defensively as well uh of course
He had a couple miscues here and there so I think we’re all confident that Bo bash’s going to be fine and the question marks are at the top of the order with uh George swinger and Vladimir Gro Jr so that’s when you look at it like that and
In terms of other addition I mean we’ll talk about it a little bit more but it just feels like now there is a log Jam of infielders and non roster in VZ where they’re going to be competing for bench rolls or platoon rolls and when you other than that that’s basically the
Only competition that’s there’s going to be other than of course a couple Bullpen spots and of course the fifth starter spot even though it feels like going into the spring it’s Alec mono is to lose so that’s kind of what you have to look at this year and in a way it is
Similar to last year because I remember last year saying this uh to you uh Mark and Jacob that it felt like for the first time in a while and probably for the first time that we were ever doing since we were ever doing this podcast
The team from the start of the spring to the end of the spring was already kind of laid out and that’s what you see is what you were going to get it’s a very similar approach this year except you don’t have a guy like Matt Chapman and
You have a lot more of a log Jam of people who are going to be competing uh for platoon spots so that’s kind of where we’re at with this the only the only way for this team of course to be better than it was last year year is it
Comes from the top of that order and it comes from a guy like vlat and George Springer or else it’s going to it just feels like for me from start to finish it might be a very similar season and then of course pitching wise like you
Were talking about Mark as much as the depth might not be great I still think it was better than it was last year but of course like you were saying which was a good point is that it never even had to be tested so can you bank on that for
Two years in a row it seems like a very perfect scenario if that’s the case and it just feels like this year um and it’s more normal obviously than not is that this the depth is going to be tested and we’re going we’re also going to have to
See how that kind of happens and how uh the team reacts to that whenever that does happen throughout the season can I just quickly touch on what you said there like I think one of the issues with this whole lineup is it’s not like I guess maybe 2022 is a good example
Like you had uh I mean Springer was oh no that was 2021 you have Springer bashet Guerrero um Hernandez like you had four or I mean even Kirk he had a good season like you had five plus guys who easily like not could carry the team
But could pick up the slack I think the the thing or I guess the issue with the the lineup this season is you have maybe three or four that could carry but then the rest are kind of just like supporting roles like Kevin km don’t get me wrong like I love that guy
In the bottom of the order but he can’t carry your offense like he’s not supposed to Cavin bigio much better season last season again but same problem varo defense first as we’ve come to realize um you know Kirk been up and down Jansen good but like my point is is
If you’re star players like your top three top four in your lineup are not performing this team is not built to succeed and I think that’s just the biggest issue and maybe a reason to go out and get a bat obviously it’s maybe a little bit too late for that now but you
Know the issue is is like you you’re like I don’t want to bank on them having bounceback Seasons but like you kind of have to or else this team like it’s built off of like yeah pitching and defense but it’s offensively built on those top three or four guys
Well just look at the the division right like you have the Orioles who did they go out who is their big ad Corbin Burns who did the Yankees going add Juan sto Like These Are teams within this division the these are the the Blue Jays opponents going into this year that
They’re going to be competing for this division race with and the Rays the Rays you know they could get they could sign us uh from the podcast and they could turn us into Superstar so you know whoever they get they automatically turn good but like that’s the thing like like
Yesterday if you go even like on just like MLB social media and stuff and like you go through like uh Twitter like the Yankees videos that they’re posting like that team looks ferocious like they look scary I’m not gonna lie like Juan stto looks like he’s gonna have a monster
Year last year you know he he didn’t live up to quite the expectations I guess Padre fans were expecting in the power category but still that guy’s going to be a machine this year he’s in a contract year that’s a guy that scares me Baltimore’s offense their young court
With Corbin Burns now to lead that rotation what did we all say last year if they had pitching they were a legit leg World Series Contender now they do they have a new owner New Hope over there in Baltimore that’s scary compared to the Blue Jays whose biggest ad was
Wuo Rodriguez uh you know Justin Turner is that is that what we’re going for here is that really gonna push this team into a competitive space with those teams it’s like you said Jacob if number 27 and Bo bashed aren’t on their game then they’re just they’re not going to
Find that footing this year in that race for the division Guerrero has to find at least sort of I I guess expecting him to go back to MVP form is kind of ridiculous given what he’s shown the past two years but he has to find something better in that
Range where he’s closer to that kind of season because if they don’t have these two Front Runners leading this offense then this team is going to struggle because like you said they really don’t have the guys in the bottom of the order to pick up the slack for them and like
You said kme is is a nice ad in the bottom of the lineup he he had a nice surge offensively uh last season compared to his career but relying on guys like that to kind of carry your offense uh is a Terri way to go and
That’s going to push you back in the wrong direction so I completely agree with you Jacob there that the front two have to be the leaders of this group and they have to be by a fair margin I think if I’m trying to describe my level of optimism for this season or
I guess why there’s some excitement with spring training it’s because like yeah it’s a paradox you look at the offseason it was not what anyone wanted the Blue Jays did not get who fans wanted them to sign and that was a problem but then you come into spring training and you still
Do have a talented team you still have guys who are going to be good you have guys in monoa and Guerrero that have very clear story lines that you can follow and you’re excited about the potential of them returning so I think it’s this split of yes it was not a good
Offseason yes they didn’t do what they needed to do but at the same time it’s spring training and Hope Springs Eternal and you’re going to have a lot of excitement watching a team this season so those are kind of the two camps that I fall into they’re kind of in
Opposition with each other but at the same time I’m just excited for baseball to be back so that’s kind of where I’m at um we talked a bit about monoa I want to bring up one of his quotes that he had in spring training uh is another one
Of those great quotes he said quote they don’t give out World Series rings in Triple A um I think this is fun I don’t think this has the potential to backfire like last year was a trailer this year is the movie or like his famed quote pressure
Is something you put your tires I don’t think this is going to backfire like either of those two uh so I think this is a fun one that you know it it’s a nice turn of phrase but ultimately it doesn’t really mean much past this moment unless of course he spends a year
In Triple A yeah I feel like he’s just trying to say like look I want to be a major Leaguer because like yeah exactly yeah the minor are the minors like you want to be in the major leagues um I mean I could see MLB trash talkers on Instagram absolutely ripping the Blue
Jays or you all these Twitter accounts that I don’t even follow but I still somehow see but uh yeah it’s it it’s nothing like what flatty said last or two seasons ago yeah no not at all I mean I just I it’s just a dangerous
Alley to go down after the way the last two years have gone and yes Mano is one of the guys that has been um one of the guys that have been has been saying stuff like this the most but I mean the the good part from his perspective like
You guys were saying is it can’t get much worse um already than it was last year so if he’s going to say anything like at all you can only imagine it’s going to be going on the up and of course the only way that does happen is
Like you were saying Mark if he’s in Triple A for the entire season which I mean I don’t think that’s likely at you know at this at this stage of spring training and again it’s his job to lose I know uh I think Scott Mitchell was
Talking I think he I think he said he’s down 30 pounds and he looks a lot better and of course I will say throughout pictures and videos yes that is true but of course we all need to see this happen in the spring and I remember with monoa too is a lot
Of this already was kind of in terms of his struggles last year of course nobody projected the Fall From Grace like what happened to him but a lot of people saw the early signs of this in spring training because of course he wasn’t pitching very good in spring training
But it’s one of those things where you try not to make it an issue because it’s spring training and it’s only a couple of innings so you have to imagine that we’re going to be looking at it a little bit more closely this year in terms of
How he does perform uh in spring training games and if it starts off on a much better note then of course already we’re lining ourselves up for a better start than it was last year so in terms of where he is right now career-wise yes
I don’t think it could only go up in terms of what he was saying you would think it’d be very hard for that to go down and backfire so yeah it’s not on the cusp of anything as bad as saying the trailer in the movie and all that
Stuff so I will acknowledge that it’s just um I just again I just hate doing this with these quotes but I don’t know I don’t know if it’s a Jay’s thing or if it’s just because we’re only focusing on this team like it I wonder I wonder if this
Is a common thing throughout all the spring training but unfortunately the only things that for some reason go viral are ones from the Blue Jays Camp because I already know that that quote from an Noah has already gone viral in terms of what people have been talking
About so when it gets elevated to an even bigger platform as well throughout media and everything like that it’s also just it’s a d dangerous game and everyone knows how how it operates so I’m not I’m trying not to get excited from that and I’m also just cringing
Seeing anything like that I just wanted to see them perform on the field that’s all I want well again I’m kind of on the different Spectrum here like to me I I I admire this from an Noah because it shows that he’s confident right like I’m a big believer in always betting on
Yourself and it seems like this kind of quote is something he knows that that could turn out real bad like Jacob said looking back seven months from now that could be all over social media but for a guy to go out who put in the work
Clearly like you guys have said uh it seems like he’s confident and you know what to me that’s that’s admirable I’ll respect that he’s working his way back obviously last year didn’t go the way that anybody really thought I mean some people expected a down here because of
Uh you know his success in earlier there was there was never really a full belief from the outside world of baseball that he was a legit Ace and stuff like that there was always the nayay but like I said he he’s got he’s got the stuff we’ve seen it if he’s confident then
That shows me his kind the kind of player he is is like I said last episode is he he kind he’s he’s that player that drags the team in the fight right like he plays with a different kind of uh Pace to the game like you know he brings
Excitement obviously the trash talk is something we all know that he likes to bring as well but for him I feel like for him to be confident like that and to kind of say something like that knowing the causes long term could be pretty bad and especially not really for the team
But for himself because that’s something that if he was to make fun of nobody’s making fun of the team right like oh look at the Jays for what Manoa said about you know they don’t give rings in Triple A like he’s right like they don’t but for me that’s big coming from a
Player that I think uh you know when he’s confident and when he’s on his game he’s one of the best pitchers in baseball and we’ve seen that so to me like I said like Bryson said it’s just words we have to see what they do but
For for monoa to come out and be confident saying something like that that does get me a little excited but like I said you could talk to talk but can you walk the walk so we’ll see that here right spring training for me it doesn’t really mean
Anything I mean monoa just says stuff that’s kind of who he is at least it seems like so it doesn’t really mean anything to me but I’m glad that it doesn’t seem to hold the same potential to backfire as some other quotes in recent years do it’s I think this is
It’s a great quote but I don’t think it’s going to backfire um which is nice um okay the last quote from Spring that I wanted to touch on was one from vlat and this is kind of a more serious storyline than joking about quotes that guys have given um he was asked about
Arbitration and he sat in on arbitration but what he said was it was a new experience for me but I didn’t feel bad at all so I don’t know if this is kind of wallpaper and is just what he’s saying publicly and things are different behind the scenes but at least from what
He is saying if we take his word to be true AR ation and hearing the Blue Jays try to argue him down to 18.05 million instead of up to 19.9 million didn’t affect him or didn’t affect his view of the Blue Jays which is really good especially when you are a couple years
Away from having to have these conversations in free agency or from right now having these conversations about extensions um it’s relieving that arbitration doesn’t seemed to have affected the relationship between the Blue Jays and vlat unless maybe vlat is just saying this and it actually did so
I don’t know whether you guys believe him or whether you guys are as optimistic as I am apparently I’m the optimistic guy on this episode um as optimistic that I am that these comments indicate that the relationship is all great between the two but anyways those
Are my thoughts I I just got to say like to me arbitration it’s it breaks relationships like you could go across board like to argue that much over such a small margin to me was kind of uh the first thing that I took notice of it was
Such a small Gap in between what both sides wanted and to me this kind of was like a blue jays management sending a message like hey you know what contract negotiations are I do want to mention I mentioned this last episode but those are the numbers that they filed at like
The Blue Jays could have been negotiating with vat at like 16 million and he could have been like 22 million so what they filed that isn’t always a clear example of where they were negotiating but still like you know over such a small thing like that to go into
An arbitration case where you’re kind of degrading uh who’s supposed to be your franchise player your star the guy that if you are going to be good this season and when I mean good I mean a legit World Series Contender it’s going to be having to come off mostly his back and
The backup B bashet and to me to go into this it it wasn’t really worth it but like I said perhaps it was sending a message that when contract negotiations do come we aren’t going to be a pushover like to me like you said Mark they filed
This at their choice so it seems like they they they were close but just doesn’t make sense to me why they would they do such a thing over such a small margin and I know this does have long-term implications and stuff like that heading into next year and all that
But still just doesn’t really make sense to me I mean we see it in other sports athletes will come out and say oh you know there’s nothing uh nothing came out of this you know we’re fine and all of a sudden you’ll see a player’s performance just Decline and you know everyone I
Guess wants wants to come out saying oh the image is good and all that even from a players perspective because you don’t want a player to come out and say oh you know they they made me upset and spring training and blah blah blah especially when you’re a player like Vladimir
Guerrero Jr because you know you don’t want to Kickstart rumors like that and that’d be a whole other media gossip but just to me just a weird thing to do with a player who it seems like management is saying okay you know what we’re going to
Build this team for you to carry kind of the offense and for you to reins that kind of mindset in your group you’re you’re you’re getting these guys I guess bar and other pieces to help this core if this is the core you’re betting on then why are you going to an arbitration
Case with this core player that you’re trying to degrade his value it just does make sense to me at all yeah I mean I feel like one of the issues with this is uh I don’t think that Vladimir guo Jr would be the type to go out publicly and say that he was
Upset first of all like I think it was Marcus strowman a couple seasons ago where he he flat out said like yeah I’m not happy I’m going to arbitration or I’m not happy at the result of it theil on the head exactly so like I have to feel like yeah he’s thinking like
Dude really like it’s whatever the fil numbers versus actual numbers are he like you can’t help but think really like you’re like I know I said this last year or last episode not literally nickel and diing like 200,000 versus 300 like there there is a lot of money
Involved in this but like really I’m your supposed to be your franchise player and we can’t even agree on a contract like it you can’t help but think it’s a little bit frustrating and so we’ll have to see I mean another guy that we haven’t even talked about is um
Is Danny Jansen like he he’s going to need a contract soon like how Zach going to go if he doesn’t come back uh I’m very concerned for how this pitching staff and just team in general will will look going forward but it it is frustrating that like these core players
Are needing to go to arbitration especially after Bo bashet agreed to that deal uh I think it was right before last season to like buy out his arbitration it’s like like I don’t want to say like pay your core players like yeah they the core players need to perform but you
Also like you need to pay them if you want to keep them yeah I mean I saw something funny too actually about this whole thing with vlat is where people were comparing how they took vlat to arbitration uh over 1.85 million but they were also willing
To spend 700 million on sh Otani so um that part’s also kind of funny when you think about it like that but yeah I mean usually when there is a small Gap like this it’s pretty common that both sides meet in the middle I mean I remember last season right before spring training
Started this it was kind of the same situation with Bo bashet where last year the blue jay settled with everybody and then we’re going to be going to arbitration with Bo bashet before they extended him three years until um he was going to be an unrestricted free agent
So we saw something like that happen last year I was I kind of had I wouldn’t say an expectation but I did believe that there was a decent chance that something similar was going to happen where they would eventually avoid that and settle at something last minute but
I mean over 1.85 million yeah for me I think I for what you said earlier Josh I think I’m at that are on that boat as well I think that this definitely feels like it was a little bit of a message uh from the front office about how they
Weren’t able they weren’t willing to budge at all and this was really on vlat to somewhat perform better and to earn it um because of course the expectations that he has had over uh the last couple of years and of course since he’s gotten here anyway so it seems like Vlad also
Is pretty stubborn in terms of not willing to move down who knows to the extent of how much negotiations did happen after the fact that AR arbitration was filed and Mark I was actually worried because I thought you were going to talk about a different
Quote uh that he did say and he said something a couple days ago uh where he he flat out said on the record that he feels closer to 2021 physically and um I just right when I saw that again did not like it uh did
Not like it at all because it’s just um it’s it’s just giving that that dark chance of false hope for somebody to be on so I mean of course he does look good um he appears to be in the best shape of his life just like everybody else which
Is good and um hopefully uh he does turn out to be like 2021 and you know at if that also happens this is going to lead to a longer term thing where hopefully at some point he can be here probably for the most or if not the rest of his
Career so it’s definitely an interesting point because of the fact that both of these guys and I also throw both bashet here is that none of these guys are have been signed long term compared to what we’ve seen throughout baseball so the Blue Jays definitely did this a little
Bit differently than everybody else and yeah it appears that both of these guys are going to be going to the end of their term on contracts and then going to be both going to the open market unless anything significantly changes so I I just see this as also one other step
Or another chapter in this whole process and unfortunately it’s come with a lot of underperforming um Seasons compared to a couple years ago and we we really for this team’s uh from this team standpoint what we talked about at the beginning is that he needs to get back
To that point for this team to have any sort of chance to be better than they were last year so I think that’s obviously the biggest question mark and it just but again to add it all off very strange how over less than two million this did turn out to be an actual
Arbitration hearing but of course who knows how he really feels behind closed doors of course what he was saying to the media could obviously be very different but he also didn’t seem like to he didn’t seem to give off the impression that he was lying either but
Of course we don’t we don’t read minds either and nobody can so um that’s really all you can say and all you can kind of take away from this whole process from that I really don’t think the Jays were sending a message in arbitration I think
For them it literally is just the money I think the danger is that the player could think the team is sending a message and the player could say oh they don’t value me whatever etc etc and then they take offense and at least publicly it seems like that’s not the case and
Like like I said this last episode but I think vlat is smart enough to realize that it’s not personal like I I don’t I think he understands the game more than someone like Marcus strowman like vlat has been on a baseball field like every day of his life practically and I think
He he gets what’s going on here and he’s he’s smart enough to not take offense to it at least it seems like that and whether that’s actually the case we’ll never know or at least I guess we won’t know until he hits free agency if he hits free
Agency and doesn’t get extended which seems increasingly likely at this point um okay uh I guess we can Pock free agency a little bit like the Jays go out and get Daniel vogelbach they get Eduardo Escobar they sign both of those guys to minor league deals um it’s a
Homecoming for for Danny V uh good to have him back after two games as Jay in 2020 um I don’t know it’s like they’re minor league deals it’s only upside for me it’s a little confusing why the Jays feel an impetus to go out and build on their infield
Depth when they aren’t building on their pitching depth and for me that is the number one concern this season uh is a lack of starting rotation depth and I know that they’re probably saying oh well yiel Rodriguez can fit in there I don’t think that’s a backup plan I think
That’s relying on someone who hasn’t thrown a professional pitch since 2022 who hasn’t started since he was in Cuba like that is a recipe for disaster relying on him for depth so like I think these deals are fine there’s no way to be upset about a minor league
Deal the only thing is I I think the Jays still need starting pitching depth well see that’s the issue is like if they had even a like decent offseason and then they make these moves last minute it’s like okay yeah whatever it’s fine but like when this is pretty much
All you’ve done all offseason people are like oh the Savior Daniel vogle back like what’s he going to do and so like it’s just it’s they’re moves that like I like you just said you can’t be mad at them like what’s the worst that happens he doesn’t make the team and then
Whatever his free agent or even if he does make the team like he’s get he’s promised $2 million for this year so it’s like whatever he Strikes Out 100 like it doesn’t matter it’s $2 million no yeah that’s but like I think like they’re not bad deals it’s just when
This is pretty much all you’ve done all offseason is where it gets a little concerning so like there there isn’t really that much to talk about it like like you said Daniel VAB back he’s played two games as a blue jay like there’s really not much
Um there’s not much to talk about but it’s I feel like we have to just because that’s all they’ve done so it’s going to make for a very interesting uh spring training I’ll tell you that to see a lot of these guys playing and how many aats they really do get
Yeah um with Daniel vogo back I mean he was definitely it felt like it would it’s odd how that whole thing in 2020 where he was here for a couple games like that was weird how that all happened and then how that all transpired and everything like that but I
Mean yeah I mean the only thing you can touch on what you guys were saying is that yes it is the league minimum um technically nothing can go wrong with that but if it doesn’t work out it just goes back to the whole conversation of
This is all that they did and then that you know that’s the part where um you can also criticize the offseason once again but I mean I don’t know how much expectations there are for a guy like vgab back or Eduardo Escobar um who are both like you guys were saying uh minor
League deals and non-roster and VZ so if it works out for them it works out for them regardless it feels like there’s going to have to be a move regardless because of that I mean they I know they already got rid of or they already traded OT Lopez and they unloaded that
Um that infielder spot for cash so I mean I think there’s going to be if it does happen barring any injuries it feels like if one of the two or both of them or whatever make the rosters is going to have to be moves regardless so
Like I said this is the some this is something here where it’s going to be this is one of the the camp battles this year at spring training for platoon spots on the bench and vogelbach is a lefty uh I guess he brings that a little
Bit different to the table than a guy like Eduardo Escobar so we’ll see what happens with that he has some power I mean back to his last couple of years as well when he’s been with the Pirates and he’s been with the Mets um he does have
Some power you know still I think he peaked though in 2019 again when it was the 30 home runs with the Mariners and I remember that was kind of the whole thing when he came over here for two games in 2020 that you know Blue Jays
Fans were kind of looking forward to in terms of can he get back to that and replicate that of course that whole season um just was different in so many ways and then ever since that as well uh the last couple of years he hasn’t gotten back to that point also so it’s
It’s an option Off the Bench and um regardless if it works out or if it doesn’t work out technically yes it it doesn’t you know there’s no long-term impacts to the franchise but of course if it doesn’t work out you you’re still scratching your head at this is all that
They did to bring in another bat honestly one thing I will say like the absolute ceiling for Vogal back is a little bit higher than Escobar in my eyes like I I like I’ve been a big fan of Escobar throughout his career that’s a guy you know finally drafted in uh MLB
Fantasy in our leagues like that’s usually the guy I’ll take in the the middle to late rounds but so you know to me that’s a little bit exciting he is a bit of an older player so I don’t know how much he does have left but um as a
Veteran presence to me the Escobar signing uh I’m okay with it Vogal back though is the one that intrigued me more only because I feel like there’s there’s something with his game that nobody’s really talking about and that’s the fact that he sees a lot of pitches he is one
Of the best in baseball at driving up Pitch counts so you know to me this is a guy that can kind of sneak into a leadoff spot if this team is struggling now that’s the absolute ceiling right if everything goes right and stuff like
That um he does uh you know he like I remember when he was with the Pirates like he could get on base like he could walk like stuff like that um but you know that like like Bryson said he does have some pop in his game but he does
See a lot of pitches so to me that’s where the Intrigue comes from like obviously he’s not going to bring much to uh in other categories otherwise you know this wouldn’t be the contract that he’s here at but like I said he sees a lot of pitches so to me that’s uh one
Thing I think uh management was kind of looking at especially because we already brought up the uh the marfield situation last year right where he kind of took over that lead off spot um but again that’s just the absolute ceiling of this move that’s to me what I kind of see in
This move if if everything does go right which is a small margin uh this is a guy that like Bryson said a left-and bad that uh isn’t bad at driving a pitch count so like yeah you can talk yourself into thinking he’s a good player if you want
To or a good signing like it’s not and that’s not to insult like it is it’s a whatever I mean like he had a 104 Ops plus last season in 2022 he had 126 Ops plus so like he he can be a valuable offensive bat um if you want to get
Excited about a sign like this for me it’s just a a minor league deal um and I wish they were going out and getting pitching depth at this point um uh in terms of hitting there are still two guys on the market and that’s match hatman and Cody Bellinger uh like we we
Mentioned these names every episode we keep circling back on it eventually this conversation has got to end because spring training games start today they start on Saturday for the Blue Jays let’s go Padres there there’s got to be an end to this conversation at some point I don’t
Even want to talk about these guys anymore I’m just putting it out there in the universe that they still exist on the free agent Market it’s embarrassing I think yeah like it’s embarrassing and they all have a common denominator of who the who their agent is and you guys
Know my opinion on Scott Boris that that’s uh he’s very bad for baseball I’m not gonna say what I said before but jeez wow okay well maybe we can end the Pod with this it’s not good from baseball that again Jacob where did that he’s bad for well like you okay I
Don’t want to call Matt Chapman and Cody Bellinger star players but like you have notable uh players that have had good careers that are not signing because of an agent and a sa young winner Yeah well yeah that too like it’s Heyman of the Blue Jays right here Jacob your fa
Your favorite media caster right here Jacob but you’re you’re kind of right though like I don’t blame you like with your with your thoughts I think we all kind of here are kind of frustrated with Boris and all the stuff he does no I get your money Cody Bellinger get your
Money Blake Snell get your money come on you can’t tell let’s be honest let’s be honest here let’s be honest here the Jays aren’t signing any of these players so the longer they go on the free agent Market means the longer it will take for
Them to get up to full speed and full performance which is better for the Blue Jays like I I don’t see a downside here no not to me I like this if blell takes another two weeks to sign that means he is not going to be fully worked
Out for the first two weeks of the season and if he signs with a team like the Yankees that means they don’t have their Ace for two weeks like that’s there’s there’s only good that comes from this because the Jays aren’t signing these guys so okay you’re looking at no level frustration baseball
Like outside terms like we have key free agents still on the market to me as a fan of the game I don’t like that now as a blue jays fan sure but overall you want these guys on the field you want to see how they do if if we let’s say the J
Signed Bellinger damn right I want to see him in spring training I want to see how he looks I don’t want to wait here and for like you said for for baseball players to catch up to speed it’s a lot longer than other sports and you know people overlooked that because I guess
Maybe this not as a physically demanding sport but getting your swing right getting your pitches right that takes time that takes effort and that takes commitment and you know to me seeing this from Boris like Jacob said it’s not it’s not good for the game put that in
Quotation marks if you want because you know but it’s not it’s not Scott boris’s fault he’s playing within the rules he thinks his clients can get more money if they wait longer and of course he’s going to do that like if you want these players to
Sign in have a deadline have a signing window before the season starts like to me this is not on Scott Boris for doing these things if you want if you want the league to work differently the league has to make these rules and the mlbpa
Has to agree to them like see I see I don’t see this as one one agent’s fault I don’t know I see what you mean but like it’s all his clients like and he thinks he can get more money his job is to get the most money for his clients his clients want
To make the most money good on that like that I understand that but as a fan like how am I supposed to go and talk to someone be like hey watch baseball oh who plays there oh well like half the damn players spring training let’s be honest no one’s watching spring training
If you’re not a baseball fan okay yes no one’s watching this no one cares that Bryce Harper didn’t show up until week two of Philly’s Camp when he signed no one cares because he was there for open like but at the same time car if you’re
Not a baseball fan and if you’re a baseball fan you put up with this stuff anyways yes but like when I look at things like the n ba and the NHL people enjoy this because it’s like oh like it’s July 1st and your team is pretty much already set like if I’m these
Players I’m like Jesus Christ like I’m the season starts in less than a month and I’m still not signed or I’m you know I’m looking at all these like like I said I don’t want to call them star players but I’m looking at notable players that are not signed it’s like
Like how are we supposed to expand the game when we can’t even expand like The rosters of teams CU players aren’t signing I don’t see the connection exping I I don’t I don’t know where I was going with that but you know what I mean like how are you supposed to like
Convince people to watch this when like I can understand being frustrated as a fan but it’s embarrassing I don’t think it’s Scott boris’s fault I like if you want it changed the league and the mlbpa have to do something Scott Boris is doing this because he can make more
Money if he does this but that’s the bottom line like he’s not doing this to antagonize fans or make him a set or whatever like I I don’t get it though like how is this increasing their chances when the Cubs are calling him out saying yeah you
Know we’re talking we’re just we’re not negotiating though like these teams are they’re not budging at these guys and at some point if these guys are G gonna want to play they’re going to have to budge on themselves for a guy like Matt Chapman who probably isn’t going to get
The payday that he thought eventually his best course of action is GNA have to come back and go on a probably maybe a one or twoe deal again and try and revamp his value and try again next year so that’s that’s how I look at I don’t
Know if it I get it for some of those guys maybe like Blake Snell Sher but I also look at some of these other guys and I don’t I don’t see how it increases the chances that them holding out is going to get them more money down the
Line but of course that is his approach and uh I guess I I will ask you guys one more thing before we wrap it up is I think well Mark I know you talked about it but like is there you guys think it’s zero percent that a guy like Matt
Chapman can still come back to the Blue Jays uh zero yeah no there’s at this point there’s no way Chapman Chapman to me is a little bit higher like Bellinger and no but Chapman Chapman’s at least a little bit of a bomb for me not that I’m expecting it
Not that I’m hoping for it I just think like if you look at like an odds ratio I think it’d be a little bit closer but nothing like in in realm of I think it’s G to happen like it it’s still a long shot um like you know it’s been reported
They’re kind of done with their major additions and quotes so but like I said if you’re comparing it to the outside Market I do think chman would have the best odds at of return and I’m not sure that’s going to be uh well-liked by the fan base but that’s just in my opinion
The the odds on if they were to add one of those guys yeah Chapman most likely but none of them are likely well with that we’ll wrap up our episode we are two days away from the first Spring Training Game and we’re very excited to see Ricky Tedman
Make the start uh I know it’s only going to be two or three Innings but it’s still exciting for him to get the nod there the honorary nod at the start of spring training as always you can support our podcast by checking us out on social media subscribing on YouTube
Um or just telling a friend about our podcast so we can spread the word um all right we will catch you next time after we have some game action under our belts see you [Applause] Then [Applause]
With Spring Training action beginning in two days, Mark, Bryson, Jacob, and Josh discuss last minute signings and where the team goes from here.
Also, Section 138 will undergo some exciting changes in the near future. Stay tuned for updates!
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