Hey all and this topic was brought up in the comments of my Hart video yesterday, so here’s my attempt to tackle the subject.
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39 Comments
Makar having 2 more power play points while being a +9 (still good) vs hughes a +32 (fantastic).
How important is that stat? Guys like DeMelo and Forsling have even better +/- compared to their own points.
How much are they bringing to their team in comparison?
I think it's like when Fox won it. Hedman was the overall better player, Fox had the better season.
Makar is the overall better player – Hughes is having the better season. So far.
Hedman would've had 3 Norris' if he was born in North America. Lidström maybe 8 or 9.
As an Avs fan obviously I’d go with Cale, but I absolutely agree with you there should be a defensive defense award as well. For the true toothless enforcers of the game.
Looking back to the draft. Imagine if makar fell to 5 and we still got Hughes.
Or better yet traded for 4th pick and kept our 5th. Imagine walking out of the draft with makar and petey
Cale Makar is better. Anyone who argues otherwise doesn't know hockey. Quinn is fucking awesome and I'd love to have them both, but THG is right. If you get one, it's Makar.
When you can't kill penalties against top units, nor block shots, nor hit. Are you really a norris contender??
Great video. Saludos de Uruguay hockey guy!!!
I would vote for Hughes so far this season. He really elevated Hronek, 10 more EVP, plus I think he controls the game better, Makar is more of a double edge sword.
Hughes is the Norris winner IMO only because of the Canucks turn around, I think that plays a role.
All I’m saying is that Shea Theodore would definitely be in the conversation if he didn’t get injured earlier this season.
I mean makar also plays on a better team since he was drafted
Makar definitely has my vote. And anyone who thinks he can’t play defense didn’t watch him own McDavid in the 2022 playoff series.
And yes, we definitely need a defensive defenseman award! I’ve been wanting that for a while.
So many really good defencemen in todays game.
My thoughts are this: why did you change your mind and get a 2024 NHL All Star jersey? I think you said in an earlier video that this was a jersey you wouldn’t get? I’m only curious ha!
The answer is both are pretty good and that it's good for the league and fans alike.
I think Makar is the best. I also think he is fortunate in having as his line mate Toews, who is arguably the best defensive defenseman on the league. They have such great chemistry and allow their respective skills to shine
If I am picking one defenseman for my team, I'm picking Makar. However, for this season, to this point, I am picking Hughes. The two things that Shannon didn't talk about were leadership and team success. Quinn Hughes was named team captain this year, so he has taken on a leadership role that has at least contributed to the turn-around for Vancouver. At this point in the season, there is no doubt that Vancouver is a better team than Colorado. I am not saying Makar is not a good leader, but I don't think his contribution is as obvious as Hughes', and I don't know that his impact is as great for his team, as Hughes is for his team. Lastly, the best player in the NHL is Conor McDavid, and he is the best player every year. He doesn't win the Hart every year, though. Why not? Because other factors come into play for the award. Same in this case
makar
The only reason [like you barely] i might take hughes over makar is the both have the same term currently, but hughes is making 2 mil less.
Makar is better than Hughes everywhere except passing
Jacob Trouba hands down, best all around d-man. Nobody changes a game as effectively and cleanly as Trouba. I'd trade Sanderson for him in a heartbeat as a sens fan, and Caufield for him as a habs fan. He's no 4th forward, but damn does he know how to play defense. He's got wingers looking over their shoulder, he'll block shots, box guys out, and he's a good skater for a big guy.
I am a massive Makar fan, and I do think he's the best defenseman in the league, but if the Norris was handed out today, I think Hughes would take it. It'll be interesting to see what happens down the stretch.
They are both playing at 100 point pace.
2 reasons Hughes will win it.
Makar is playing with a Hart contender in Mackinnon while Hughes is the best player on the team.
Hughes is +36 while Makar is +10.
=34 hughs what doeas have makar have at plus min
+34
Not that it will ever happen but could you imagine both on the blue line together, instant stanley cup team!
When it's this close, it seems that awards voters turn to sabermetrics to see who should get voted over who. Both Quinn and Cale are what you'd consider quarterbacks in terms of how they drive up the ice and initiate plays, so in that sense, they are similar players. And although their game styles are otherwise different, I think the stats really speak for themselves here. Quinn so far has:
– Slightly higher offensive points share.
– Noticeably higher defensive points share.
– Many more goals on-ice for (120 for Quinn and 100 for Cale), and many less goals on-ice against (51 and 70)
– Slightly lower offensive zone start %.
– Noticeably better Corsi and Fenwick possession metrics.
– In terms of relative Corsi/Fenwick % at even strength, Quinn is actually dominating Cale in this category. 9.1% versus 2.1% for Corsi, and 6.9% versus 2.0% for Fenwick.
The conclusion I can draw here is that while Cale continues to play stellar hockey whenever he holds the puck, Quinn's game is complete, all-around, and demonstrative of how powerful a high hockey IQ can be when you have the poise and athleticism to back it up. Rick has been praising Quinn for almost never making a bad pass, and I think you see that in a lot of the quieter plays that don't get talked about as much. Also, I don't think it can be understated as to how important it is for Quinn to have two of the best players in the NHL on speed dial year-round since his brothers Jack and Luke are also top-notch hockey players. With that said, it's Quinn's trophy to lose at this point and the only way he loses it is if Cale scores 60 points in the last 30 games or if Quinn just starts laying eggs on the ice.
Watch Hughes with the puck moving throught traffing in the neutral zone and into the offensive end. He gets around a lot of offence where others wouldn't, or where they might turn it over more, and gets into position to make good puck distribution decisions. He extends offensive zone time with these decisions and also putting the puck on net when screens are in position to tip or get rebounds. He is usually thinking a move ahead a lot of the time with respect to positioning when moving up ice or in the offensive zone. Plus he has been a terrific captain when the Canucks really needed strong and stable leadership. Oh, and he plays defense pretty well, too.
I think that Brock Faber could work his way into this conversation, if he continues to develop.
Hronek and Weegar will get some votes
Makar has consistently been the best after he won the Calder. He’s the best two-way yet is faster and better on the entry and Better footwork.
As a GM you’d be nuts to take Hughes over Makar.
Adam fox is almost underrated at this point
Makar’s had a better career and trophy cabinet, but Hughes is on a whole other level than Makar this year
Good thing Fox wasn't mentioned, as he's obviously overrated and actually quite average amirite
If i'm starting a franchise I would pick Makar, but Hughes for Norris this season for me.
people actually think Makar is top level defensively?
I wouldn't normally be a stickler for plus/minus, but this year Hughes is at +37 while Makar is +7. So, it seems like Quinn is having a greater positive impact when he's on the ice, even if he doesn't get a point. Maybe that's more a characteristic of how dominant the Canucks have been this year, but to me Hughes gets the Norris edge at this point
Canucks Fan Biase – Quinn H this year… He's leading with 66 points but also at a Plus 37 compared to Cale's Plus 7 over their career probably Cale
I say THG should do annual defensive defensemen awards. There’s nothing better than solid blue line play and most people never want to talk about it or even care. I find the defensive side of the game much more intriguing