I personally think a Vezina trophy, three cups, 5 SCF appearances, an incredible amount of wins, and a season with 10 SO is better than good. Agree or disagree?
MAF is great enough to expertly recover from the terrible positions he often puts himself in.
He’s great.
torch787
Good enough to make the Olympics roster even though he did not play.
Defiant_Cup9835
He played on a good team his entire career which he deserves his share of the credit for but also inflates the stats. Two of the Cups he won he was the backup after losing his job. Vegas was also pretty quick to move on and after seeing him play since it’s hard to argue they were wrong to let him go.
You aren’t great if you have consistently been inconsistent over the course of a 21 year career. He’s been up and down since junior. Great at times, a complete mess at others.
I agree with the guy who told you he’s good but not great.
shanster925
Ooo… It’s the save that got Babcock fired!
DominionMM1
He’s basically Chris Osgood with more games played.
Disastrous-Cake-7194
F that guy!!!
I love Flower…
Holly_the_Freak
Currently? That’s an absolutely correct description. In terms of record? He’s one of the most successful goalies in NHL history, even if he started to fall off after 2016. He deserves to be mentioned alongside goalies like Roy, Brodeur, and Belfour.
rickzaki
Do you mean future hall of famer?
Monument170
Anyone with 500 wins is great. There is only 3 goalies. He has no idea what he talking about. MAF has 1) cups 2) wins 3) longevity
No_Spend_8907
Definitely a first ballot HHOF. I’m pretty sure he’s in a special club outside of hockey that will guarantee it.
non-plused
They can eat my balls. Flower is a first ballot HOFer!
CubicalWombatPoops
First ballot Hall Of Famer
fentown
I honestly didn’t think we’d get another Osgood situation out of Marc Andre Fleury’s career
5599Nalyd
Well they’re correct. He’s a good player that was blessed with amazing teams in front of him. He wasn’t a great player.
Boo_bear92
MAF is one of the *only* goalies to be drafted 1st overall for a reason.
Some of those early Penguins teams he was on, Pre-Crosby years, were atrociously bad. Then he switched from those obnoxious yellow pads and everything turned around
UopuV7
Is it possible they meant in terms of current form? Whole career is HOF level, but in 2024 I’d say he’s just outside the top 10
SayNoToStim
He’s not great. He had two incredible years and 15+ of mediocre to bad years. I wouldn’t even put him in the top 10 of his era. But he played on incredible teams all of his career so his team stats are super inflated.
Thatguyatthebar98
I’m bias but goat tendy is a hard argument between Roy and Brodeur. Playoff wins vs regular season wins. Both had great teams in front of them. I say 1A/1B but the big question is what if Hasek had those teams in front of him instead of buffalo. Flower is immaculate. Can’t skip that the top tendies of all time are from Quebec. Fleury is still my favourite even if Roy was my idiol. Flowers personality and goodwill towards everyone wins every time.
screechypete
He’s a first ballot hall of famer when he retires. It’s not called “The Hall of Good but not great”
CinnamonOolong30912
I don’t think he was ever great in a given season, but he was so consistently good (and also in a good situation being in Pit then Vegas) to rack up awards and stats.
I don’t think he was ever a top 3 goalie in any season, including the vezina season. But he has racked up so much that he competes well with the all time greats.
ESB409
That person is being slightly harsh but is not wrong.
If you are using wins as an arbiter for goaltender evaluation, you really don’t know what you’re talking about – but neither do half the people who work in this silly sport, so at least you’re in good company.
Chemical_Hour9788
Hes great when when he isn’t unnecessarily handling the puck lol. I’ve loved him on the wild. Wish he had more years in the tank.
EasyRudder49
I’m a Caps fan. I hate that guy because he is great.
CountingArfArfs
Don’t forget he was also a 1st overall pick. As a goalie.
TheRudeRune
Is Flower a HOFer? Yes. Would I consider him on the same level of goalies such as Price and Hank? No.
Flower is good. Maybe even a bit better than good. He was never great. He had moments of greatness but they were moments.
CarlSK777
Fleury was good but comments here are wild. Fleury isn’t an all-time great when we look at his save pct. He was incredibly inconsistent and doesn’t have that many truly great seasons compared to some of his contemporaries. Lundqvist, Luongo and Price all had better careers but don’t have the rings because they didn’t play with Crosby.
Fleury’s save pct during the 2009 is one of the lowest for a Cup winning goalie in the cap era. Last time I checked, it was the 2nd lowest.
He’ll get in the HOF because the bar is fairly low and he has rings but he’s nowhere near as great as some comments suggest
Stonewall30NY
He’s very good, maybe on the edge of great but eh not fully great. He played for mostly elite teams which helps goalies a lot. I’ve never faced him and thought “fuck scoring is gonna be hard tonight” like you would with the other greats of the era like lundqvist, broduer, price, rask, quick, etc.
A perfect example is if you swap MAF with lundqvist for example, lundqvist wins 4+ cups, 2-3 vezina’s benefitting from the cleaner and more elite play in front of him, while MAF on the rangers doesn’t drag the rangers kicking and screaming on his back to wins the same way. Then again I’m comparing him to an all time great. Maybe if we’re talking just pretty great I guess but I still think he wasn’t in that upper tier of great with some of those other guys in his era
Mauri416
Lol so I’m the guy he’s talking about. I said it in another thread. I’ve never had a thread about something I said…
Fwiw I like MAF. I’ve asked OP where he ranks MAF amongst the top goalies of his generation, and he’s responded asking if MAF banged my mom. So ya, I guess this is his way of validating his feelings.
I think it’s an interesting debate with good points on both sides, and this thread has shown that.
28 Comments
MAF is great enough to expertly recover from the terrible positions he often puts himself in.
He’s great.
Good enough to make the Olympics roster even though he did not play.
He played on a good team his entire career which he deserves his share of the credit for but also inflates the stats. Two of the Cups he won he was the backup after losing his job. Vegas was also pretty quick to move on and after seeing him play since it’s hard to argue they were wrong to let him go.
You aren’t great if you have consistently been inconsistent over the course of a 21 year career. He’s been up and down since junior. Great at times, a complete mess at others.
I agree with the guy who told you he’s good but not great.
Ooo… It’s the save that got Babcock fired!
He’s basically Chris Osgood with more games played.
F that guy!!!
I love Flower…
Currently? That’s an absolutely correct description. In terms of record? He’s one of the most successful goalies in NHL history, even if he started to fall off after 2016. He deserves to be mentioned alongside goalies like Roy, Brodeur, and Belfour.
Do you mean future hall of famer?
Anyone with 500 wins is great. There is only 3 goalies. He has no idea what he talking about. MAF has 1) cups 2) wins 3) longevity
Definitely a first ballot HHOF. I’m pretty sure he’s in a special club outside of hockey that will guarantee it.
They can eat my balls. Flower is a first ballot HOFer!
First ballot Hall Of Famer
I honestly didn’t think we’d get another Osgood situation out of Marc Andre Fleury’s career
Well they’re correct. He’s a good player that was blessed with amazing teams in front of him. He wasn’t a great player.
MAF is one of the *only* goalies to be drafted 1st overall for a reason.
Some of those early Penguins teams he was on, Pre-Crosby years, were atrociously bad. Then he switched from those obnoxious yellow pads and everything turned around
Is it possible they meant in terms of current form? Whole career is HOF level, but in 2024 I’d say he’s just outside the top 10
He’s not great. He had two incredible years and 15+ of mediocre to bad years. I wouldn’t even put him in the top 10 of his era. But he played on incredible teams all of his career so his team stats are super inflated.
I’m bias but goat tendy is a hard argument between Roy and Brodeur. Playoff wins vs regular season wins. Both had great teams in front of them. I say 1A/1B but the big question is what if Hasek had those teams in front of him instead of buffalo. Flower is immaculate. Can’t skip that the top tendies of all time are from Quebec. Fleury is still my favourite even if Roy was my idiol. Flowers personality and goodwill towards everyone wins every time.
He’s a first ballot hall of famer when he retires. It’s not called “The Hall of Good but not great”
I don’t think he was ever great in a given season, but he was so consistently good (and also in a good situation being in Pit then Vegas) to rack up awards and stats.
I don’t think he was ever a top 3 goalie in any season, including the vezina season. But he has racked up so much that he competes well with the all time greats.
That person is being slightly harsh but is not wrong.
If you are using wins as an arbiter for goaltender evaluation, you really don’t know what you’re talking about – but neither do half the people who work in this silly sport, so at least you’re in good company.
Hes great when when he isn’t unnecessarily handling the puck lol. I’ve loved him on the wild. Wish he had more years in the tank.
I’m a Caps fan. I hate that guy because he is great.
Don’t forget he was also a 1st overall pick. As a goalie.
Is Flower a HOFer? Yes. Would I consider him on the same level of goalies such as Price and Hank? No.
Flower is good. Maybe even a bit better than good. He was never great. He had moments of greatness but they were moments.
Fleury was good but comments here are wild. Fleury isn’t an all-time great when we look at his save pct. He was incredibly inconsistent and doesn’t have that many truly great seasons compared to some of his contemporaries. Lundqvist, Luongo and Price all had better careers but don’t have the rings because they didn’t play with Crosby.
Fleury’s save pct during the 2009 is one of the lowest for a Cup winning goalie in the cap era. Last time I checked, it was the 2nd lowest.
He’ll get in the HOF because the bar is fairly low and he has rings but he’s nowhere near as great as some comments suggest
He’s very good, maybe on the edge of great but eh not fully great. He played for mostly elite teams which helps goalies a lot. I’ve never faced him and thought “fuck scoring is gonna be hard tonight” like you would with the other greats of the era like lundqvist, broduer, price, rask, quick, etc.
A perfect example is if you swap MAF with lundqvist for example, lundqvist wins 4+ cups, 2-3 vezina’s benefitting from the cleaner and more elite play in front of him, while MAF on the rangers doesn’t drag the rangers kicking and screaming on his back to wins the same way. Then again I’m comparing him to an all time great. Maybe if we’re talking just pretty great I guess but I still think he wasn’t in that upper tier of great with some of those other guys in his era
Lol so I’m the guy he’s talking about. I said it in another thread. I’ve never had a thread about something I said…
Fwiw I like MAF. I’ve asked OP where he ranks MAF amongst the top goalies of his generation, and he’s responded asking if MAF banged my mom. So ya, I guess this is his way of validating his feelings.
I think it’s an interesting debate with good points on both sides, and this thread has shown that.
So I’ll just live rent free in OPs head I guess.