Pride Nights in the NHL continue to be an ongoing issue. Eric and Marc Staal decided to forgo pride night citing their religious beliefs. The Chicago Blackhawks have also cancelled their pride night for this upcoming Sunday. What is the solution to this problem?
First Pride Night Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=job_GOsj1UI&t=1s
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29 Comments
I feel like the point is to create a more inclusive atmosphere, so that more gay players feel more welcome at the rink.
A large problem when it comes to LGBTQ+ rights has been 1) A refusal/dismissal of their existence and 2) An attitude that trys (intentionally in many cases) to exclude them from social life. Both actions weather intentional or not makes LGBTQ+ people a taboo and ostracized faction of society. When people like Eric and Marc Staal refuse to wear the pride jersey they are weather intentionally or not perpetuating ostracization and shunning of LGBTQ+ peoples from not only hockey but society itself. Especially given the fact they are(were) hockey legends, veterans, and leaders.
What I found hypocritical is that Eric Staal was cought wearing a pride jersey when he played for the Montreal Canadiens. IDK what's wrong with military nights?
Hey man. Freedom of choice. All the players should be thinking about is winning the game. Get rid of the outside noise.
I dont care what you are, but if you are going to shove it down my throat, I dont want anything to do with it. I would have it banned instead. NO MATTER WHAT THE TOPIC. This topic should NOT even be an issue. PERIOD.
LGBTQ+WOKE, that's the problem. I'm gay and from what I am hearing and seeing, Something needs to stop. No matter what the cause, it gets hij∆ck3d.
Good luck Gen Z, yours is a first world problem sponsored by liberal woke universities. Btw I believe in the Trinity too.
LGBT covered the cause, the flag is a spectrum supposedly covering everyone but it wasn't enough, it never will be. Feelings are not facts and fewer people care about feelings especially when it comes to pronouns.
Drag the queens.
All I want to do is watch a hockey game, I don't care what you do I your personal life.
you had me at "pandering bullshit".
I'm willing to accept anyone equally for their religion, ethnicity, color, sexual preference, etc. But when they get put on a pedestal and act like they're superior because of it, I have a problem.
Shaming and bullying people who don't agree with your viewpoint, is exactly what the Pride/30 pronouns groups are doing to the ones that don't want to wear the clothing and promote the choices of a particular subset. It's beyond hypocritical, and the great backlash is starting. Threatening me with punishment only guarantees my hard core opposition after a point, when previously, I had been more than willing to live and let live with acceptance FOR ALL. But force it on me? We have a problem, and you push me into the "Against" camp.
It went from tolerance to inclusivity to endorsement. No thanks. Good on the players for standing up to the bullying.
Here's my thorough response.
This stance is still completely wrong.
I'll put subject headings in them to make them easier to reply to.
RUSSIA:
First, we need to remove a few things from the equation: Its turning out that the 'Russian law' excuse is garbo. Actual experts are weighing in on it, and 'participating' in a Pride Night is very very very unlikely to set that off. To date, there seem to be no cases of someone being targeted for acts done outside of Russia. And wearing a jersey in order to do your job is hardly going to qualify as a strong enough act. As terrible as the law in Russia is, it's not as terrible as that irresponsible Athletic article made it out to be. (This seems to be further supported by Bill Daly saying they've received no official concerns due to Russia either.) So when the Chicago team claims they're caving into Putin, they're lying to you. But even if there was a violation of the law, it would only be a fine in this instance of $50 to $2500 or some super small amount like that. Nobody is getting 'pushed out of windows' over this. And wearing a rainbow jersey in order to be able to do your job is hardly going to catch Russia's govt's attention. This is even further supported by the fact that plenty of Russians DID wear the jersey this year. Including high profile ones like Malkin. The Russia thing was poorly researched and only became an excuse used by another team AFTER an irresponsible article came out about it, lol… I think we need to stop utilizing that as an excuse for anyone else until we have better information to go by. It was a weak argument as it was anyway though because it meant requiring Americans to respect Putin's laws in this country. Under no circumstance should Americans be obeying Russian law.
STAAL:
While not the main purpose of this video, it's a biased omission. Staal has previously worn the jersey, and lied about wearing it even when told there was photographic evidence of him wearing one in MTL. Like at least own up and admit you wore it before. I wonder if the Bible encourages lying?
BIBLE:
This is hinging on more of a point from a previous video's comment, but I don't think you ever responded to my point there. You tried to wave your hand at people bringing up how the Bible says its wrong to wear clothes made of two different fabrics, or working on Sunday is punishable by death. I believe your claim is that its ridiculous to bring up those 'nutty' passages. But the nuttiness of those passages is the entire point. These players keep insisting that they need to stay true to their religion and will say the Bible is the ultimate authority. But then it seems like they are personally choosing which passages are authoritative and which are not. ….Which would mean the reader is the ultimate authority. Nobody from 'my side' is making the argument that working on Sunday is worthy of capital punishment. The question that is being asked of Staal, Reimer, etc, is if you're perfectly willing to discard concrete statements in the Bible, why are you so firm on this particular one? The Bible is not a 'get out of jail free' card here. You still have to explain yourself.
CHRISTIANITY:
This video makes the same error a previous one. There's an assumption that LGBTQ & Christianity don't overlap. But 47% of LGBTQ adults are religious, mostly dominated by Christianity, but some Jews & Muslims in there too. So this builds on the previous section: Christianity is not a free pass to condemn and reject LGBTQ people. They themselves are part of the church! There's also plenty of churches that do accept them. And it's not at all hard to find them. Just go into your nearest city.
GOD'S WORD:
….So the Bible doesn't actually condemn gay/trans people the way the Staal brothers would have you believe? So once more, it becomes super important to ask, "Wait, what passage is it that you arbitrarily decided is the ultimate authority?" From HRC:
"While some Christians say that the Bible presents a variety of hard teachings as well as promising suffering for followers of Jesus (Matthew 16:24), it never endorses oppression. In order for suffering to be Christ-like, it must be redemptive. Redemptive suffering does not uphold oppressive forces but always expresses resistance against them. For all of these reasons and more, Christians have a moral imperative to reconsider their interpretation of what the Bible says about LGBTQ+ identities."
Also from HRC: "While the six passages that address same-sex eroticism in the ancient world are negative about the practices they mention, there is no evidence that these in any way speak to same-sex relationships of love and mutuality. To the contrary, the amount of cultural, historical and linguistic data surrounding how sexuality in the cultures of the biblical authors operated demonstrates that what was being condemned in the Bible is very different than the committed same-sex partnerships we know and see today. The stories of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19) and the Levite’s concubine (Judges 19) are about sexual violence and the Ancient Near East’s stigma toward violating male honor."
I don't really want to get into a whole Bible debate club here, but seeing people just blindly throw it up as a shield over and over has brought us here I suppose.
JERSEY MEANING:
The people protesting here want to say they accept and welcome LGBTQ people. Well, they're in luck! Wearing the rainbow jersey means EXACTLY that and nothing more! Awesome! But seriously, that's literally all it is. There truly is nothing more to it than that. There's no deeper meaning. Do the Staals cower in fear when they see a rainbow in the sky or something? If he's willing to say the he supports and welcomes gay people from his locker room, what exactly is the problem with wearing the jersey that says the same thing? What 'extra' bit is he concerned will happen from that action? Also, if we are to believe that its some horrific symbol that offends their religion, are we to believe that these players would refuse to play for New Jersey if they were given a fat $12 mil per year contract? Come on now….
PANDERING:
Not brought up in this video specifically, but in a previous one, the point that 'this is all just a marketing ploy and the NHL doesn't really care.' I can resonate with this argument. Do I think Gary Bettman, well known terrible person, actually has a heart for an oppressed minority? Lol, no. He's only interested because he believes initiatives like this will broaden the NHL's fanbase. But that doesn't make the whole thing a trash event. Because there are plenty of people who are participating in the event that DO care about these things. And there are plenty of fans watching who feel a deeper connection to their team & players as a result of these nights. The overall good is still greater than the bad press that comes out on these specific people. There are people in the LGBTQ community who are elated to see their favorite players wearing a jersey that says, "Hey, you're cool" Wearing a rainbow jersey is far less about the person wearing it and far more about bringing joy to other people. (I feel like I'm teetering on a Christian value here, being selfless in the name of helping others, I'm sure something like that is in the Bible somewhere.) While YOU might be jaded and see the whole thing as a meaningless sham, there are most certainly people out there who are positively affected by these events. And that's whether they're there in person to see the warm-up jerseys or see the pictures on social media. You can't just erase these very real positive experiences from people.
DEMOGRAPHICS:
Circling back just a tad to the CHRISTIANITY section, you point out that 7% are LGBTQ, 56% Christian (which would include possibly 3% of the LGBTQ crowd.) This seems to suggest that we should just default to what 'the majority' wants. If THAT'S the case, then let me introduce you to one more statistic: 54% of Christians say homosexuality should be accepted vs 38% who say it shouldn't. 72% of Americans say homosexuality should be accepted. 85% of Canadians. Honestly, it's really a bad faith argument (Pun!) to throw up a "56% Christian" figure and use that alone to justify anything. The much larger majority is saying otherwise.
Stop shoving it Disney everyone’s throat …new can respect each other as humans without threatening people … if I don’t want to wear the ribbon that’s my choice … since when do we all have to agree
Simply make it "Hockey is for everyone" and from the Christian perspective everything would be fine. The problem is the word "Pride". For many Christians, who would back political and social equality for all citizens, are very wary about appearing to say that they are "proud" that someone is gay, just as I would not expect someone to celebrate being "proud" that they are straight or a particular religion.
Do other leagues promote this too? I don't recall other leagues wearing special pregame jerseys.
my problem with it is a lot of these "christians" be picking and choosing what scriptures from the bible that they want to follow. for example, cussing is a sin, drinking is a sin, having a beard is a sin, sex before marriage is a sin, plenty of mindless bullshit is a sin. but the minute someone likes the same sex as themselves and most of the time that feeling is genuinely uncontrollable, its a problem? there's a difference between not wearing it so your family doesn't get killed and not wearing it because your just homophobic and wanna say you "don't believe in it". hockey is a sport known to be a little bit more conservative than others and its unfortunate we can't just accept one another and support group that are the minority and have to struggle with being hated on for who they are. what if for the black history month a player said he wouldn't wear the jersey because he doesn't believe in being black? like cmon now, lets stop the bullshit.
Your parts have purpose, I don't need to hide behind Jesus to know the sexualization of sport, and children is wrong and evil and a sign that your society is dying.
Pride is the last thing these people have…their entire identity is based on who they ball…contemptible, degenerate bullshit.
If the NHL would one and for all get rid of gay pride night then they wouldn't have a problem.
Now NHL executive Brian Burke is continuing to shove this down peoples throats he claims he's Catholic he doesn't see a problem sorry brian your lying i went to Catholic church lets say there wasn't a big pile of support like your saying…
Honest question do you guys see pride night as any different from military appreciation night? The way I see it honoring the US military is shoving politics down ones throat just as much as saying pride views are accepted
there’s dumbass university professors in Canada that are calling for players to get suspended or penalized for not wearing those jerseys.
Its so weird that, "allow to live in dignity" is described as "supporting a cause". One side is like, "please stop trying to erase us" and the other side is like, "please stop resisting your erasure" and so many people act like these ideas have similar merit.
I think the biggest difference is if there was a Christian genocide the left and the LGBT+ community would help defend the Christians because that's what a secular society does. The fact they don't reciprocate that, and the disdain they show for the existence of their fellow citizens, removes them from any sort of moral high ground.
I think it's great that the Staals virtue signaled to both the bigots and the LGBT+ community. They are perfectly within their right to send a message saying the LGBT community isn't welcome with their actions but say they are with their words. As long as we recognize the reality of the situation.
I'm good with the solution being no more pandering events, but there's no way they are going to turn down all that sweet taxpayer money from the American Military Propaganda Machine. So what will happen is any kind of leftist messaging will get stifled because "that's political" while right wing messaging will be cranked to 11 because "that's patriotic".
It's okay. It's America. I'm very used to this.
Yup get the politics out of sports. It does nothing but draw battle lines for us to all fight about politics where there should be none.
Pride in being a freak should not be celebrated
Exactly
The only problem with having the players individually support what they want for specific nights is when you have a team first mentality
Eric and Marc Staal are a couple of class players, and their refusal to wear the degenerate gay colors speaks to their character. Watch how many more NHL players refuse to wear the rags now. NHL needs to ban the "pride" BS, the players are following the lead of the people of the country in rejecting this degenerate, woke trash.
This is what I don't understand. If Hockey is for everyone; then why have specific groups recognized on certain nights? Does the NHL mean don't attend or support your team on nights that celebrate issue groups you don't support, but attend and be overly vocal on nights that sponsor your group? Sounds like hockey isn't for everyone on certain dates. Seems hypercritical.