Matt Dumba materially changes both path of travel and body position immediately prior to contact, after the puck is gone. Honestly under the current NHL rulebook this is a borderline minor penalty. My system is designed to keep hitting puck focused and therefore places more emphasis on players recognizing responsibility after the puck is gone.
@Minnesota Wild
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"Bruh, you must never have played hockey"…. sigh. Definitely a penalty, pick your poison. There was only one intent with this hit. Injure.
clean because it's playoffs.
Sooo…his shoulder drove through the stick, then through pavelski's head?
Good point. I wonder if player safety will catch what the refs missed.
Clean hit.
Thank you for this. I’ve made this point a few times elsewhere (puck was gone, didn’t start his hitting movement until after the puck was well gone).
First – It is possible to get injured by a "clean" hit. Second – It is possible for a hit to be both "clean" and "big". Third – Defending a hit as "clean" does NOT mean you are "happy" that someone was injured. That said – here's my take…
These "big hits" usually have one thing in common: The guy getting hit (for whatever reason) does not see it coming. The resulting "collision" almost ALWAYS takes one (or both) players off their skates. In those cases, the "awkward landing" often does more damage than the "collision". That is exactly what happened here (as was the case when Eakin hit Pavelski a few years ago). Look at how hard Pavelski's head hits the ice. That is what caused the injury. No question about that. Not even debatable.
That said – I think your take on interference is a bit unrealistic… It looked like Pavelski was going to take the puck behind the net. Dumba commits to the hit to separate him from the puck (hockey play). Pavelski flips the puck to the net. Dumba finishes the hit less than a half-second later (at 30 frames per second, Dumba makes contact with Pavelski 12-13 frames after he shoots the puck; literally less than a half second). Technically "late" but you're not going to get that call very often. The majority of hockey people (currently outside of Dallas, Texas) agree on that point.
In short – a clean hit ended with an awkward fall. Interference call is "borderline" (and that's being generous). Had they called interference, it would have been a minor penalty. Bottom line – If Joe sees him coming, then we have a clean shoulder to shoulder hit less than a second after he releases the puck. No interference. No awkward fall. No injury. No debate.
In all reality – The Stars should consider themselves lucky they didn't end up on the penalty kill for 5 minutes themselves. Domi should have picked up a 2-5-10 for (1) Dropping the gloves and punching a guy who did not want to fight, (2) punching Dumba while the refs were holding on to Dumba, (3) intentionally slamming Dumba to the ice face first, (4) punching a downed opponent several times in the back of the head and (5) completely ignoring refs instruction to stop.
Clean hit. Both feet on the ground. Dallas is lucky they didn't get a penalty for instigation
Why did you gloss over this section of the interference rules?
Possession of the Puck:
The last player to touch the puck, other than the
goalkeeper, shall be considered the player in
possession. The player deemed in possession of the
puck may be checked legally, provided the check is
rendered immediately following his loss of
possession.
You didn't look up the correct rule. You should have looked up charging.
Not sure why this is even a debate clearly a late hit.
It's people like you that is killing the game it's a clean hit get a life
Gets rid of the puck, immediately gets hit. Don’t be so soft. You’re the ones ruining hockey.
He also did get a penalty. They changed it to a minor for roughing. Which was fair. It’s unfortunate he hit his head on the ice but it’s hockey. Those things happen. Wish they didn’t but it’s a contact sport on ice.
clean hit, bad take
It was not called a major. There was no call coming. They ruled it a major afterwords to review the hit and then went back to the original call. There’s no head contact, and Dumba hit him well within a half second of giving up possession. Dumba lines up the hit while Pavelski has the puck.
Basically everything stated in this video is an inversion of reality. “Looks fine in real time, but when you slow it down enough so I can create a narrative to virtue signal it’s obviously a suspension.” FOH.
Interference that's all folks . Or roughing .
Clean hit. Minnesota should’ve gotten a power play. Domi should be fined for continuing to hit Dumba like a girl when the refs were breaking it up.
Sorry but can’t agree with this opinion at all. The acrobatics of your argument show as just trying to sell something false. Of course Dumba changed his stride for the hit… it’s a hit. The fact that you are even discussing it like it is a crucial part of the argument is baffling. The question is of timing and while I can see this being called for 2 min interference in the regular season that’s it. Additionally the playoffs for right or wrong are called different. We will se dozens of “late” hits like this all playoffs and all will come and go without penalty or even much attention. The only reason this has so much attention is the resulting injury. It sucks that Joe got hurt and I wish him the best but an injury doesn’t automatically mean penalty.
The spirit of body checking (aka hitting) is that it be used to separate a puck carrier from the puck. Recognizing that a defender can be committed to a hit when the puck carrier gives up control of the puck, there’s a short grace period (sometimes known as the stick and a half rule). Dumba’s hit is all about inflicting damage. Dumba has every right to continue his line and make bracing contact with Pavelski. It’s the lateral motion that makes this a penalty. And I’d argue that based on the degree of violence, it should have stayed a 5.
Great breakdown, as always
You are incorrect sir he did get a penalty. It was a clean hi. It is unfortunate that Pav hit his head on the ice but you can't use that as a argument.
He was skating right into him. What else is he supposed to do, blown up himself? He braced for control,
This reasoning doesn't work because there are 10-20 similar hits in a game where guy "finishes his check", particularly in the playoffs. Unless you're saying they should be calling all of those interference penalties, then you can't make the argument that this should be a suspension simply due to the severity of the outcome. You're splitting hairs to even make this illegal. If you think hits resulting in injuries should be suspensions, then make that argument, but the one you make doesn't hold water imo.
Nah thats as close to immediate contact as it gets, Dumba's skates shift simultaneously as Pavelski get rud if the puck, watching it in slow mo does zero justice. In real time the whole thing is a split second and you can see that Dumba is commited to the check as Pavelski gets rid of the puck.
The refs actually got this one right after review, it was a beautiful hit that had an unfortunate result and nobody would be talking about it negatively if Pavelski is alright, it would be a part of the highlight reel for the whole playoffs.
With such a fast paced game… it’s almost impossible to make a judgment… I played at a high level till the junior leagues, and you have to make decisions and commit quickly … I’m a stars fan and all… but you can’t blame Dumba for following through with his defensive play
He committed to the hit before Pavs release the puck, there's no time to change trajectory man, guys are skating on ice there's no time to adjust. In slowmo everything is possible, play it real time, it's impossible. He shouldn't have committed to the hit, that was the only way for the hit not to happen.