The Left Wing: Champions Cup drama, Joe Schmidt to Australia and red card controversy

The Left Wing: Champions Cup drama, Joe Schmidt to Australia and red card controversy

Hello and welcome to the leftwing podcast will slaughtery here I’m delighted to be joined in Studio by Luke for and on the line by Jonathan Bradley of the Belfast Telegraph the Champions Cup pool stages are done and dusted and the path Into The Knockout stages has

Been set so we have plenty to get into tonight also the Six Nations launch was earlier this week with that coming into view next week obviously that big game in Mars on Friday week Ireland versus France so plenty of discuss tonight but since it’s Jonathan Bradley we have on

We’re going to have to start with user Jonathan and I I saw your tweet I think you had some travel issues like a lot of people coming back in the UK over the weekend what is the mood like in Belfast as we sit here now after that we after

Kind of the debacle in harlequins I know John Cooney said that fans were very supportive to him after the game uh at the twick him stoop but what’s the mood would you say among supporters and what what do you just think about about where

The team is at we had the highs of of the win over ller on New Year’s Day it seems that was a year ago not two weeks ago yeah I mean I think that’s just the sort of team that they are at the minute you know comes almost a cliche to

Describe inconsistent teams as you just don’t know what you’re going to get from them week to week but with ster that really is the case you know you look at their last 30 games which is a substantial sample size and they’ve won 15 and lost 15 and they you know you

Point out the fact that they’ve beat teams like laner they beat rassing they beat monster but they’ve also put in some really really object performances where they’ve been hocked like seven tries a game for two weeks running is a terrible enagement of where you at before you even examine the types of

Tries that they were conceding you know ster moski after too used the word school boy to describe the tries ad doer were conceding against too to my mind the tries that they conceded against harlans were so much worse again like if you genuinely saw players switching off a line quick line nights players

Switching off for quick TOS at any level of rugby you’d be disappointed let alone a professional team playing in their biggest game of the season to stay in the Champions Cup I mean it really was incredible some of the scores that they gave up in that uh in that hard guns

Game just suppose you’re asking about the mood and yeah I saw John C’s H post on social media and I think by and large there is a cohort of olster traveling fans that will be at games like that that are very supportive that will really buy into this idea of being

A part of the team sticking with the players through thick and thin and then you’ll obviously have a number of supporters in the other Camp who just don’t think that uh Professional Standards are being met so we all know that rugby you know rugby isn’t like football

You’re not going to have massive Car Park protests about uh managers getting sacked and things like that but there is a ground swell of dissatisfaction I would say that is more evident in fans that are just not turning up the games anymore rather than the fans that are

Traveling with the team back and forth and the ones that are meeting and interacting with the players and as Co was pointing out giving them you know encouragement by all kinds telling them that you know oh it’s okay we’ll go and win the challenge cup sort of thing

Which to my mind is a bit uh sort of missing the wood for the trees like you know but um that’s what it is yeah look obviously last week you had a good kind of set cut off olster so I think I set the scene at half time at the weekend I

I tweeted you and I said I like you know Luke was was got tearing his hair out last week I wonder what what he’s thinking now but as Jonathan alluded to there like if the tries they conceded against toose were sec School God that first half was primary school stuff

Against against Quin like we had Jacob stock down misjudging the bar of a ball Robert bacon you know somewhat similar sliding in like fumbling at Quinn getting two easy tries the quick line out you know Nick David running in from 60 meters untouched like like being janitor

Primary school I think it was montoria best like I just felt like if you know you’re going over to to Harley quin’s and you’re allowing them to play that game like if you think about who you’re playing at the most basic fundamental level allowing someone like am Marcus

Smith or or just some of the dangerous players that they have um that amount of freedom and space uh to attack you like quick lineups things like that should have been on the radar all week saying listen these are the B these are the these are things we are just not going

To allow happen uh during the week or sorry on the weekend against this Arin team and um yeah obviously some of the mistakes you mean they really don’t help they happen from from time to time but they just look careless to me you know people just not having urgency in in

Scenar is not realizing the the gravity of certain situations of of of making a mistake like balun looks to me like he’s trying to collect that with one hand not in a real showy way but it’s just just a way too casual you know and um for

Players that are really really good I mean look last week I did go on a bit of a ramp because you were going to going to go gloss over you going to say look we’re not going to talk about we know what happened with oler and I was like

Well no hang on we don’t because well for the record just the reason I wanted to I wasn’t trying to Closs over we’ gone for like an hour and 10 minutes I AG go we’re against time I have to cut something from the running order so just

Just for a little behind the curtain that was my thinking but sry okay well that does make sense because I I just felt like there’s no way we can’t cover this I mean that you can’t you just can’t continue to go from a performance like they had in the ODS to these two

Weeks in a row and we we saw it last year as well like I would argue that they’re they’re actually quite consistently poor in big games where they need to really show up that that that is my feeling about this Ultra team just when you’re when the expectation

Levels rise even a little bit they just seem to disappoint you consistently you know so I get Jonathan’s point and and and if you look at the whole body of work there you know you can see an inconsistent team but I would say they’re consistently bad when they

Really need to turn up and and I think they’re way better than they’re showing um and that’s what’s so disappointing about it you know and I think look there’s going to be a cohort support supporters in in probably nearly all the provinces that are going to show up and

Support the team and you know no matter what but that’s probably not the most they’re it’s the it’s wrong to say they’re not the the the most important because clearly they are the heartbeat of of all the clubs but you really like where you come under pressure is where

That it’s where that other cohort who are kind of disenchanted and don’t see you know kind of the basics being performed and don’t see the team really fronting up physically um you know you think of some of the some of the tackling against too particularly like

At home um you know those kind of things that’s where you lose a cohort of supporters that are very very important to you financially we know there’s been a bit a few challenges up and aler with that too so um I don’t know I don’t know

How you fix it at this stage I I would never call for something kind of drastic in terms of coaching or anything like that that’s not what I think I don’t like doing those things but they they certainly need to have it’s this is happening too often and I feel like I’ve

Said the players need to have a look at themselves in the mirror too often with this soci team it feels like maybe something bigger has to has to happen they they certainly need um to to make a change somewhere and whether that’s adding someone to the coaching staff or

Whether that’s making a bigger change I don’t know but it can’t continue like this there’s too much quality in my opinion there um for for the results to drop off in the big stage like this and I think you know I go on a lot about defense will and it probably drives

People mad and and they think it’s obviously a boring part of the game but to me it’s a fundamental and and and it’s also a real really it gives you a peak behind the mental toughness and even even your concentration levels as a team and I think you know the way oler

Performed the last two weeks that that’s a sign of a of way bigger issues behind the scenes to me rather than just just what we’re seeing on the pitch it’s not a case of the big you know coming to the big game and they’re not showing up it’s there’s something wrong about the

Concentration levels and the commitment levels and and I think they need to get that sort of really quickly yeah in terms of the consistency element of like Jonathan s up over 30 game sample size 15 wins 15 losses like it’s not even like 20 losses and 10 wins where you’re

On the slide you’re literally slap banging the inconsistent middle of probably and if you looked at the the schedule it’s probably like win loss win loss A lot of the time as well which is I think immensely frustrating for supporters up there Jonathan in terms of

Like where they go from here I I liked your piece um I think it was today on the Bas Telegraph about the challenge cup and you know whether it’s it can be a positive going forward the season if they go on to win it you kind of Drew

Comparisons with like you know lesser secondary football tournaments like maybe the Europa League or or The League Cup that like you know is that really worth celebrating massively like but my thought on it is i’ interested to get your thoughts on it is is it better for

Us to say to like limp into the last 16 and get troun spite to loose again or or beaten out the gate by Lancer and I’d apply this to maybe con as well or go into the challenge cup and I know it’s a you know a secondary competition of

Course it is but there’s still good teams in that and I know you made a good point about like have the teams who’ve won it really kicked on in a meaningful way but when you haven’t won a trophy in so long and you’re playing like you the

Quality in that tournament I still think is pretty decent what what do you think about that like I don’t know if there how what the value is really in getting to another last 16 and getting beaten out the gate again I just think the Champions Cup is a yard stick tournament

Like you know I talked about the last 30 games but to Luke’s point about this team not showing up in the big games it’s two wins in the last 10 Champions Cup games My worry would be that if you go and win the challenge Cup by beating

Say for the sake of argument montellier Claremont the Sharks and seal it’s not inconceivable that oler could beat those teams but does that then generate some sort of feeling of good Good Will that there isn’t something that needs to change something fundamental that needs to change about this team and about this

Setup because they’ve won a piece of silverware that realistically they’re only able to win because they failed in their first goal of the Season which is to get out of their Champions Cup pool so I would just worry that it would be viewed as this real positive thing like

You know I let off that column saying that if you were born the day allar last one a trophy you’d be two days shy of being able to legally celebrate a challenge cup win by buying a pank that’s how long it’s been so like olster aren’t in a position to turn their nose

Up at it but my worry would be that it would just be papering over the cracks of what appear to be much more fundamental issues when you’re getting these types of performances over the course of really 14 months like more than a season now and it’s it’s the type of performances and

It’s the type of things that just can’t be explained Away really you know Luke says about you have to be aware about these quick Taps by all accounts they spent time a considerable amount of time looking at this last week in training and then still managed to switch off for

It like it’s uh it’s just a really really bad look for a professional team to be doing some of the things that they’ve been doing recently and I think that winning you know winning pures all ills in a lot of ways especially when it’s a fan base that have been so starved of

Any type of silverware but I don’t see how beating those types of teams and it’s no disrespect you know we’re talking about like Claremont are a massive team the Sharks you look at some of the players they have regardless of far they’re going like oler would have

To beat significant teams to do this but I don’t think if they do that and then all of a sudden go back into the Champions Cup and get Tred again a couple of times like I don’t see that they’ll have made any progress from it I

Suppose is what I mean well like what what but like I agree with what Jon’s saying like I don’t think it would be a case even if they did win there’ be like an open top bus tour around Belfast you know I don’t think it would be like that

Obviously it’s a challenge cup like people know that’s not the the be all or you know the top you know prize on offer but you know to go and beat the list of teams Jonathan named would show a level of consistency it would show a level of performance they’re not to loose and

Laner but they some of those teams that are good size as he said the league position you know isn’t great for some of them this season but the quality in the squads is definitely there is that not more valuable then kind of getting

Into the last 16 by you know a bit of a look bit of look or squeezing through and then just getting torn us under in the last 16 which is almost certainly what would have happened I think it’s more valuable they shouldn’t get torn aunder like I think the big Point here

Is that like they what they showed against lenser a couple of weeks ago that that is something that the what the product they put out that day that is good enough to be top teams in any competition I don’t care who you are you just the the spirit with

Within the team the accuracy at times when they needed to the bit of flare at times when they needed to the clinical Edge that they showed all the things they had on show that day tell me that they can beat the top teams so I don’t understand why we’ be saying oh they

Shouldn’t be you know they’re not able for Champion wasn’t a full ler team though I it was a good Lam but it’s away from home that’s a that’s a like that ler team is is would have been good enough to beat I’m going to say 90% of the teams in Europe um

Probably in the Champions Cup actually as well I think at home um so to my mind it’s just not good enough you know and I I think look let’s get off that point because I think that’s fairly clear that they’re inconsistent and I think they have the potential to

To show great performance I don’t think it’s I think you’re right in that it will probably they probably would get a transing in the quarterfinals but it’s also wrong for us to be in that mindset about this team which is the bigger issue here to go back to your point

About the challenge cup and whether it serves a purpose it may well do um I don’t know how much of a purpose but I think you could definely start showing some consistency there um does it mean as much if it’s against lesser opposition I I don’t know about that and

That’s that remains to be seen I think there probably is some value in them getting a couple of wins on the Belt getting a little bit of confidence um you know but I still think the the Jonathan’s point about the barometer being the the cup the Champions Cup is

Still right and this team should be in this you know whether they’re they’re not a final team in my mind but they’re definitely a a couple of big performance they have a couple of big performan to get into a semi-final type team would be my opinion about olster and and that’s

Why I kind of went i’ kind of gone so hard in on them is that I just I just would hate to see them slip into that kind of mindset where they think it’s okay to be in this competition and there’s value because I think they’re it’s a bigger organization than that

Like I think oler maybe maybe I’m wrong maybe it’s all moved on from when I what I think of olra but um I don’t know I think if I look individually at the Players I think there’s a few few players who I think I would have issue

With um in in terms of them being at the very top table but not that many that they’re that they’re this far away that they’re a challenge Cup team you know look you and Jonathan obviously I I’m in the minority amongst the three of us I

Just do think if they went on a run and won it as I said I think it would show consistency they would need a form line to get there because I think there are decent teams in the tournament yeah know that’s fair and you know as I said is it

Is it better than playing one more game in Europe and getting heavily beaten because they would have probably been a four seat maybe maybe not you know they’re in the tournament now so we’ll be to see how they approach it Con they there as well they’re they’re in a

Similar position they obviously beat Bristol to to get into uh the the challenge cup so yeah the other way you’re looking at that will is that it’s kind of an opportunity loss so say they were always going to be after the start they had um they were probably always

Going to be you know struggling to to get a obviously you know a top seeding so they’re always going to be going away H for for for this match against a tough probably against you know a better ranked a top quality team in Europe in the in the in the Champions Cup right

But the other way of looking at that is it could have been a it could have been a moment for them and a bigger way away day win H in the Champions Cup so there’s a missed opportunity there in my mind too you know so you don’t have to

Go the whole way but you could definitely take something from a big away day win if you know what I mean so there is something in in that as well I can see the the consistency is definitely the bigger issue and maybe this does give them an opportunity to to

Do that against some pretty solid teams I agree with that that point I I yeah I’m not going to argue with you too hard on that one and Jonathan like at the same time like supporters are probably liked even the Hope even if it was to

Loose away of like of even the you know the next game isn’t until April in The Knockout so like you could just even dream of of that day rather than a challenge cup campaign even if they do end up going on to win it a lot of supporters would still probably rather

Roll the dice even if it’s only one knockout game in the Champion Cup yeah I mean that’s the way that I would think but it does seem to me just from the people that you know I’ve spoken to over there and since I got back that most people seem to think that

Giving the Champions or the challenge cup a ra crack is better than being in the Champions Cup like I I just don’t agree fundamentally because I think there is this real possibility to as I said paper over cracks the other thing is that they there’s every chance that they wouldn’t actually win this

Competition you know they were in it two or three years ago and didn’t win it and like the fact of the matter is they’d be coming back from two weeks in South Africa before that melier last 16 tie like I know melier aren’t uh aren’t

Doing well in the top 14 but they could theoretically be going two games in South Africa in the ERC to come back to play most likely games in France like that’s going to be a big ask for them to do and I think one thing that all three

Of us would be able to agree on is that if you’re in the challenge cup it’s certainly better to win it than not win it so yeah the idea you know the idea that they’re in this competition so they’re going to win it and that’ll have a

Tangible benefit they still have to go and win it and they don’t look like they’re going to do that you know I think if you look at across the last two weeks and you know you mentioned the Six Nations launch you know Andy far was talking about teams that win win moments

You know win the small moments that make the big moments in the game like we haven’t really looked or talked about the fact that oler could have been ahead in that game at halime if they didn’t just do disastrous things in the big moments in the game like you know they

Had 11 entries into the hardons 22 and came away with 19 points like that’s that’s miserable and hardons didn’t have to work for that scores also were actually in the harlean 22 more than harlans were in their 22 and they ended up getting an absolute thump in like it’s just they

Don’t look like a team that’s going to be capable of being consistent enough to even win the challenge cup I don’t think because you’re going to need four decent performances and they will have a clunker in there like that’s the team that they are yeah as you said two two

Weeks in South Africa followed by two weeks in France to even get to a semi-final is is a pretty arduous task so so it’ll be interesting to see how they do approach it later in the year we we’ll leave aler for now I think their fans are probably depressed stop stop

He’s already dead exactly um but now for Monster fans to take their uh you know to take guys was their their turn um you know 157 ahead at halftime no have to get a man sent off you think for all money moner are going into the second half with another commanding lead they

Kind of stretched to 20 points to 10 and for the third time in four pool matches they lost a 10 point or more second half lead end up losing to Northampton Northampton obviously showed character and steal to to get the victory but very disappointing for Monster you know why

Did they lose that game do you think um I think the conditions are kind of important in that too obviously they were against the win second half that doesn’t help either um but leaving that aside I thought you know s the conditions do play a part in this they

Didn’t manage to really spread the pitch well enough to really expose I I thought Northampton with that man down throughout the game um and that was a problem for them they also weren’t very clinical I thought it kind of key moments didn’t show much composure um

And they look like they looked a bit panicky at the end now I will say um and not to not to ruin my moment of the week for the end of the show I thought um Northampton showed some serious deal and I mean we’ll go to the drop kick later

On but the drop kick was M like they they had those huge moments in in on an away day that you kind of need to drag you through and they had some big defensive sets as well they were they were impressive to watch I thought um

But monsters seemed to get you know I think Mani so man he went off like they were in a commanding position when he left the pitch you know that’s probably not a good sign either um you know and then a Hearn going off as well was

Another you know a bit of a blow at different points in the game he he’s kind of become an important part of the game plan and does seem to spread the pitch quite well for them you see him out in that Wing quite a bit giving that

Kicking option um and I thought they just were a little bit loose at different points in the game I thought they struggled to Casey looked like he was carrying a bit of an injury to me and it didn’t kick very well I thought from the base he a few loose ones and

They didn’t get up and compete on those box kicks which In fairness into the wind you’d expect to get a couple of those back during the game it doesn’t actually make a massive difference but it just you would expect a bit more I thought pay from them and he kicked a

Lot of them in field I thought towards the end I thought nor Hampton changed that kick off quite well into the into the other corner I thought that was a smart play because it was blowing his kicks and it was tricky for a left footer to get them back in you know to

To keep them tight to the touch line so I thought they they tactically were good and manage monster well but on the other side monster didn’t manage themselves very well and I think you know you’ll always kick yourself at home when you’re in that position regardless of how

Challenging the the uh the conditions were um and it did make it easier for for not Hampton to withstand the the the the pressure of 14 man for that long um it was it was one that got away from them again and and it’s a little bit

Concerning I thought the way they they they just lacked a little bit of direction at the at the key junctures in the game they’ve done most of the hard work they put themselves in the position but can’t capitalize so um look they’ve got a away with it they’ve gotten

Through but it’s a very tough task for them now oh yeah like Jonathan if you look at moner’s kind of Pool stage it’s I it’s it’s almost unfathomable how they ended up only winning one of the games like you know two home games against a Bayon second string team and like what

Is a very good Northampton team but obviously with 14 men and a double digit lead in the second half like to not close out any of those games you know they could easily be sitting there with I think they had three tries on the board in both home

Games after 50 minutes couldn’t get the four try bonus so that’s two points you could to leave on the table if without even winning the game from there it’s just like they could very well be sitting here with 20 points at a 20 and like you know really t getting a run at

This tournament and obviously of all the top seeds Northampton away is probably the the best draw you know if it’s too ler and Bordeaux or the other options but that’ll still be a tricky game but it’s just there was so much more promise like why do you think they’ve fallen

Down not just on Saturday but over the course of the Pool stage because there’s been a lot of similar leads lost and lack of composure in the second half I know they’ve had various injuries and again at The Weekend Luke touching a few but why do you ultimately think that

They’ve only managed one win when they were in such commanding positions across the board in four matches yeah and that one win being against T long away like you know they did the tough game like you know um I think and it’s no disrespect to the squad players but like

I think where the injuries have really hit them sort of in the last couple of weeks it’s just been it’s the knock on effect because I think you can see that in the final quarter of the game most especially when Peter raah went off but

Just as a sort of General Trend I think in the final quarter of the game when they are having to go to that bench and it’s guys that NE wouldn’t necessarily have been there because you know the guys that would be on the bench have replaced the injured

Guys in the starting lineup and I just think the knock on effect of that has sort of left them deepart a bit in the last quarter of games I think they’ve probably missed a we bit of experience in that last 20 minutes as well you know Conor Murray as a just as an

Example in closing out games and I think that’s really really important but it becomes all the more important at this level like the margins at this level at Champions Cup level are fine you have to do an awful lot of things well you can’t get into a lead and Coast you really

Have to see it through all the way to the 0 the 80th minute and I think monsters Pool stage has probably shown that and they’re just missing that sort of I suppose you would call it a clinical Edge maybe a ruthless Edge and I think part of that comes down to

Experience blooding the youngsters into the team and part of it comes down to as I said just lacking that little bit of depth to be able to have the bench that you really need to close out games at this level and when you think of the

Like the injuries are are a big a big part of that I think Jonathan aren’t they I mean you mentioned it there but you think about the injuries in the row you know you’ve got a dog B Kleine and you’ve got simman too you know I mean

That’s that’s going off and he and going off as well like they’re all Power Players like probably one or two of them are on the bench for you like you think about the impact that they would have if they have a full deck to play for them

So look they’ve got through I think they could beat Northampton over there very very capable that uh they showed what they can do away from home last year they need bodies back in the pitch they need Zebo back that didn’t look like a good he looked he looked upset coming

Off the pitch which means it might be kind of a recurrence of maybe a serious one maybe I’m jump with the gun on that one um he looked a bit he didn’t look himself I thought he looked really like you know I’m sure he’s really disappointed not to get in that Irish

Team you know he’s he’s an emotional guy plays with with that on you know when he when he’s happy he plays better I think and I thought he looked like he was just not himself maybe he was carrying the injury a little bit earlier as well

Wasn’t maybe it wasn’t 100% % but he had a few sloppy ones for a guy who’s been like their go-to guy in the backline I think for for big moments but also for real solidity like he was he’s been he’s been a corner stone stone for this team

In in a tough period so him going off didn’t help either in a fairly key position and that left foot of his would have really helped as well um and obviously he’s got the passing ability which was a little bit off from his usual high standards but H he he was a

Bit of a loss I thought Crowley wasn’t great either I thought he just it was very difficult conditions I feel harsh actually kind of um you know kind of getting stck in but I I I’m not really doing that I just he he just looked a little bit off well he’s starting for

Irand in two weeks time so I think it’s fair to be assessing him with that eye in mind like if Johnny seon had that performance people would have been like that wasn’t a good perform that was a bit concerning and it was a little bit concerning look but it is a challenge

With that pack I think he’s you you are missing the real power there um you know and and it’s you know he wasn’t he wasn’t great in difficult conditions now Northampton were good I think we have to give them credit like they their defense was was very very I thought they were

Impressive they looked like a team who you know when when I talk about oler and you talk about the kind of defensive side of things and the heart and the little bit of knowhow and the little bit of cuteness um that it takes to to kind of be relatively

Consistent and you know I think Northampton look look like a team who have that to me and they look tough they look like they’re up for the fight they’re out there in the pitch for each other they’re not going to making silly well they’re not making too many silly

Mistakes bar that the knee was obviously pretty pretty silly and I think it was a bit of dirty play actually by the way I know we’re going to cover it but I I do think um you know Northampton looked like a tough outfit and it looks like

Done a really good job with them so it was pleasing for them to to see them do so well you know yeah Jonathan I want to touch on the red card and I’ll follow the con one as well from the the bris ionic game as well uh Josh Coffield was

Cleared for that subsequently this afternoon I think for this for the stamp on Philly beum we’ll go to the nor Hampton one first so Curtis langon just before half time people have probably seen it at this stage kind of looked like accidentally knee Tom MN in the

Head going down and then there was a secondary knee motion TI the face he got a red card the referee said that he can’t they couldn’t kind of say for certain that it was you know labor but it was definitely Reckless gave him a right card did you think it was a right

Call I did think it was the right call and I thought it was really interesting to hear the referee say that in light of what we’ve seen the night before with conut because all this talk about intent and yes you can make a guess at it but

The fact of the matter is we can never with 100% accuracy judge intent so intent to me can’t really come into it can I can I sorry we’re trying not to interrupt each other on the B but can I ask you just a quick one just on the

Intent thing Jonathan do you think it’s a natural motion that was one thing I would ask I would I would I would maybe counter or just get like to get your thoughts on I I the first knee I completely agree but do you think moving the second knee into that position is a

Natural is a natural movement because I think that comes into it if you know what I mean if it’s not natural I think then there is a bit of intent there yeah and I think that uh absolutely has to play into it in terms of is it a natural

Movement and how much care did you take over that move and then again that comes into the the conard one as well so for me it’s not even about whether you mean it or not it’s just did you do something without giving due consideration to the opponent was there

A level of recklessness there or a level of carelessness there about what you did regardless of whether you meant it or not and in both cases I think you can say that there was regardless of the intent but I think both of those uh incidents coming within 24 hours of each

Other really just showed how difficult it is for referees to say oh well I think he meant this or I think he didn’t meant this mean this because you could have argued the case either way or both players could have argued the case either way and I think that’s why you

Have to get away from saying about intent you know I thought aent had been kind of stripped out of it like I’m just even thinking back as far as like you know Jared Payne and against sar’s Jonathan I’m sure you well remember that one back in the day like people don’t

You know do people think he went out to deliberately flip Al Alex good I think it was onto was head like no no no but but like say like no no sorry I’m not think that’s no that’s bad examp no but what you mean I think that no yeah that

Is that is reckless you were going no but I’m no I’m saying it’s Reckless and he deserved a red card no but that’s it’s so whether you my point is whether you mean to do it or not you still like so Josh carfield like dur the night he

Didn’t probably mean to stamp on Philly Le’s face but he took a huge step into the air and planted his foot like hard down and it CAU fin beat him in the face so I think it is a red guard beum moves into it was a that was a really Unlucky

One unlucky yes it was really unlucky because if you look at the way findy beam’s body moves just after it so he’s obviously going to try and hurdle him to get his so you’re obviously the technique in rooking and in tackling is to try and get that first foot that plan

Foot as Clos to the contact as possible so you can drive from that position and exert more Force through a longer through a longer position because if your feet are further back there only so far you can go without losing without going off off your feet so you’re trying

To get the foot as close as possible and as low as possible can drive further Through The Rook same thing for a tackle applies um and I can see exactly what he was trying to do and if you see what H beum has a late movement to me um that

Actually moves his head SL it’s only slight but it moves it slightly back towards it now I don’t think I I think it was right that it was a red card only because he’s not far enough away from beum making you need to be you need to

Make sure you’re further away from Fe from bm’s body H or from his head there that it’s definitely that you’re you know you’re 90% or 95% sure that you know movement from him or a small movement from him you’re not going to be standing on his head I think it is a

Little bit a small movement it is a small mov should he have more care like I think maybe but that’s a real marginal one for me I I don’t think there’s any marginal there’s nothing marginal in the in the Northampton one I actually think

That was a dirty play I I think I think that if you look at it like why would you be moving your other your other leg into that position if anything you should be trying to get back in your feet and get that foot into a position

Where you’re kind of holding it if you know what I mean people can’t obviously see me here but on YouTube they can sorry but I I just think that that that to my mind looked like an opportunistic one even though he’s not looking he

Knows the he he can he can see you can see down there and I I think it was actually a bad shot to be honest and I think he deserved the red I had far more Sympathy for the conic one I know beum gets it in a bad position but you could

See exactly that was a that was that was the correct rugby technique to be going in there getting that to be to be jumping over that he just need to be a little bit more careful with it so he’s unlucky and I think he needs he was a

Little bit careless only a little bit careless though he’s been uh kind of cleared of it today and I think it’s probably right I did see a telegraph journalist pointing out that it just as he’s making that step car singler’s leg actually goes backwards he gets a boot

In the face just as he’s kind of stepping into the Rook so maybe just they I don’t know if they view a bit of mitigation there like he got a kick in the face himself so obviously maybe he was a little off balance or a bit disorientated or what have you but kind

Of the question of inent I just kind of remember the one like you remember when Paulo Connell I want to kick that ball and Dave Carney almost got his head like booted clean off his shoulders like but that should have been the red card but

He didn’t mean to kick Rob Carney in the head he want to kick a bouncing ball well why not to like someone who I’m unbelievably fond of but not to dig that’s one of those ones where okay man and ball yeah man and ball like it’s

One it’s like one of those hurling ones where you know they say like just whip Hardon it like if there’s someone there that’s that’s unfortunate you know I that to mine looked like that one of those ones where well I can kind of get

Away with this one if if if uh if he does fall in that position so I’m not sure I don’t know about that I wish I could I know what you’re trying to get at but I’m not sure about that one as as a good example either in my opinion but

Look I think it there look at the end of the day the player safety is is is very it’s obviously clearly Paramount and I think you know both guys have suffered on this one and I think subsequently the right decisions have been made I think

Uh you know to to exonerate um the Conor Collision is is is to my mind is right you know in my opinion I thought the French referee in the Northampton game did a good job of explaining as well he’s I actually think he’s a good referee just in terms of like I don’t

Think there was intent but we you know I do think it was Reckless Etc I thought he did a good job in now Corney law obviously wasn’t happy and channeled that into a really good second half performance to be fair to him but yeah know it was it was an interesting

Weekend for the for for the two right cards just to to talk about him um Jonathan maybe want the ler now you know I the one Province uh obviously con one as well but in terms of progressing with the with the victory as well beating leester their reward is leester again H

For the fourth time in uh three seasons I don’t think it’s a fixture that many people are going to be uh rushing to buy tickets for especially when there’s a potential card of of a larell game the following weekend it’s a bit ahead of us

But you know what anything St out to you about there win I suppose the main takeaway was just uh looking at a through six nations lands and seeing I suppose you know the likes off danen and really I supp Joe McCarthy like how close is Joe McCarthy gonna be to to an

Ireland start if not against France then over the next couple of weeks I think uh looking at it knowing that the the six was right around the corner I think that was probably what I was looking for you know yeah John McCarthy I think he has to start against France I just think

He’s especially with the power there you know bringing back Paul vson now meu who would have been very powerful himself has been ruled out what do you think about that the one thing about his game that needs to be earned out is he gives away so many penalties I like I know

He’s young and he’s enthusiastic and he’s powerful he’s put himself about but because in a six nations game against France away you know two or three of those can be very now he’s not the first second r Mar to you know gives away a lot of penalties too but if he can iron

That out I think but he’s I think he’s a different player to a to in in a lot of respects you know what I mean I think um more powerful Ball Carrier I’d say I think he’s a better Ball Carrier maybe in the tight but certainly not in the

Loose you know to to my mind probably gets the little bit more scoped to do those things cuz he’s prob he was probably a little bit more I’m not going to say powerful because it’s a different it’s just a different more it’s a different kind of power to was more in

The loose I know he had lots of good things you know around kind of Rooks and around malls and things he was very very disruptive and and McCarthy does have those things where McCarthy really adds the value is probably in the areas where you don’t see him as much I think his

Tackling is excellent as well um he looks like a real force in Rooks and things and I think it’ll be a big benefit to the Irish scrum if he’s in there too at the little bit I know that he looks like he’s kind of heavy set guy

I think he’ll get better I think a good a good mole for him will probably be you know in the kind of jico Callahan type uh mole I think is what he should be aiming for so he should be one of those guys who is yes pushing and shoving

Disruptive all all the way through but knowing where the lines are Dono to my mind was brilliant for that cuz he you know when he was at the peak of his powers which for a long period of time as well and gave away very you know very

Few penalties never got a call wrong he he needs to be that guy if he wants to get in the Irish team and I still feel like there’s a I agree he’s averaging about three a game I’d say I think every game I’ve seen him this year or three B

Without looking at the stats I would say that sounds right to me and and I think he has just a little it’s only a little tidying up I think some there’s a few lenser players who were in that boat by the way as well just overc competing a little bit

Um could could do with just raining it in just slightly you know cuz sometimes I feel like he’s done the good work um but if he just stepped off the last minute he still delayed the ball half a second you know you don’t need to have the massive impact play every single

Time and I think there’s probably a little bit of as time goes on I think that that’s probably what’ll come into his game is he gets a little bit more ance about him a little bit more experience but certainly going to be pushing I think he has to be in the

Bench because of what he provides here particularly against that French pack and it looks to me like you know rightly or wrong L um and I obviously have no real insight into this or deep insight into this but the the the lenser scrum which is kind of the Irish scrum for

Whatever reason during the World Cup seemed to be getting pinged a little bit and it seems to have followed lster around a little bit too it just doesn’t look like it’s doesn’t look like it’s something that’s unbelievably reliable I don’t think in terms of you know it

Looks like we might give a couple of penties away there and now maybe that’ll change in Camp there might be a few different things that happen but at this point I think it’s probably fair to say that that might be an area where McCarthy can certainly have an impact

And I think particularly in the tight exchanges as well and and on the defensive side there is something for him there and even from the carrying side you mentioned the carrying he he’s one of those guys that gets that gritty one meter where I think a lot of Irish

Players you know if they’re coming up against that French Rush defense in the tight you know that kind of first four Defenders area McCarthy looks like a guy who can withstand a double a double hit there or an impact and still get you a yard which is very very important so he

Could play a very important role I just don’t know if it’s that starting birth as of yet he’s going up against t burn James Ry and Henderson so there’s a lot of competition for those second row spots which we will probably touch on a little more obviously next week ahead of

The France game anything else from the L performance which from that you like we were discussing a bit off air still I think their chance conversion is not good enough like that dorus one just before halftime was like the classic thing of what I’ve been looking at this

Season it’s is an open goal try almost like if you just recycle that one more phase one more and like they ended up he him he ended up fighting for extra yardage and getting the bonus Point try in the 85th minute but they had treat tries on the

Board 42 minut and they missed another couple of chances to get that bonus Point wrapped up if Lester hadn’t decided to throw the ball around at the end to get it score themselves ler wouldn’t have got that by Honest point I still think it’s an issue but anything

Else that you noticed or anything on that that you want to come in on I thought Josh fander Fleer had a really good game I think you know whether it was you know it was the first time I’ve maybe noticed him in a while I think um

Like really having a massive impact some great tackles some really good strips you know I think he looks like he’s top of the turnover charts as well in the in the Champions Cup which is which is great to see um so that’s good timing

For arand I think um I I’d also say um you know I think a little bit sloppy defensively at the start of the game I thought that was a soft try that they can see it down the shorts so kind of a basic enough error I

Will say I thought once they got ahead of steam up you know Lester could not compete with them you know I think first 20 minutes though it was funny off the line they kind of knocked the stuffing at him there I don’t know what happened with whether it was a confidence thing

Laner just continued to play even when they were kind of going backwards at different stag in that first 20 minutes but they have great confidence in their in their ability I think to break teams down and I think they have good confidence in their bench I love how Nar

Is using that as a real attacking weapon he can see the kind of the sou African thinking coming through there like people are coming off in 50 minutes you know what it does allow you to do is really empty the tank for that 50 minutes and it looks like they’re

Breaking teams a little bit there don’t think they’ll be able to do that against the guys on the top table your to losers your lower shells will be able to deal with that better but the rest of the outfits can’t compete with them and you

Could see that like on on 886 minutes I mean there’s very few teams that are able to leave with lster at that juncture you know um and yeah look Lester were going for that bonus Point as well obviously which which did tie into the way they were

They were playing kind of loosely but lenser did look very very good they they kind of had them nearly broken a couple of times before that so I think it was deserved I think a little bit wasteful they could be a little bit more patient um whether it’s white line fever which I

Think a few of them might have been um but they definitely should be finishing a few more I I said last week on the show I’m less concerned about that side of the game I think lers still have it they still have that ability to break

Teams down to be clinical and to get tries um and I think they that’ll get better as as the season goes on what I did like about the performance was the defensive side there was periods in that kind of middle portion of the game where leester had the ball and we just getting

Pushed back like 20 30 meters the line speed and I thought the The Tackle accuracy improved I still feel like against the best team I’m just checking are we up to how many weeks are we now in the Jack n countown clock 14 I don’t know but look I think they

They’ll continue to get better though I still think the tackle technique is is an issue for them I think you can you know they’re they’re still their feet are still a little bit far away from the body for me and they’re diving at a lot

Of ones they don’t need to dive at but I I could see the start of of of it coming through in periods in that in that game and that was very pleasing um so yeah look I think there was lots to be positive about thought low looked good

Um you know which is great for Ireland too um and it looked like Hena hencho had a pretty good game as well as as ringr still a few tackles I wish I wish he’d stick but he still looked very good at different points too so a lot of

Things good from an Irish perspective and a lot ler very pleased like that’s still a tough place to go and get a win yeah you know what’s funny that it made the joke with Jack n 14 weeks I’m pretty sure when I went back and looked at it

It the 14we period is around the quarterfinal stage could be L could be lelle again though that would be the perfect acid test for Jack abers 14we blueprint to see if he can overcome our show but speaking of kind of The Knockout stages Jonathan obviously you

Know the bracket has been set now you know we have five rematches going into the to the last 16 of pill matches at least for ler Northampton sorry monster Northampton ler leester it’s kind of the home and away games been have been flipped around so there’s some sort of

Novelty there but some people kind of saying oh it’s a it’s a flaw in the tournament that we’re getting these rematches like what’s your view on it I’ve actually really enjoyed the pool stages I thought the four weeks of Ruby was very entertaining but it is a little

Frustrating especially as was the lens or Lester one in particular because we’ve seen it so many times recently but you know some of these things are kind of unavoidable because they want to incentivize the various seaing so people keep kind of pushing to the last day but what are your thoughts on

This I think yeah I enjoyed the pill stages as a whole game to game like they were good quality games I still think the format completely undermines it like to have a r Robin where not everybody plays everybody when there’s having a r Robin pointless really like oler’s pool was a

Decent example not a perfect example because olster didn’t really deliver upon it but like the fact that everybody else in that pool got to play Cardiff meant that oler essentially gave everybody else a fivepoint heads start like if oler had to performed better and still went out then they could have had

Real complaints over that so that’s one flawed format and then the fact that if you have four teams from each pool going through then obviously you are going to end up with these repeat fixtures and some of them like anyone who watched like the stormers against lelle as an

Example would be excited to watch that game again so I don’t mind that as much I do think really even just the idea of having a last 16 I understand why they have it it brings in more money people enjoy the Jeopardy of The Knockout rugby

But you are going to end up with I suppose games that aren’t that appetizing because the difference between the first you know the best couple of teams in Europe and the 16th 15th 14th best teams in Europe to my mind is quite large so I think that’s as

Much of an issue as seeing games that we’ve already seen this season it’s funny you’re right I had consider that us were completely shafted with that pull because Cardiff R only in there I think because the Welch team had like you know that slot reserved which is

Gone from the league now yeah so they didn’t even actually qualify and as you said they got beaten out the gate in all their matches so oler as you said was spotting every team in the pool Five Points whereas oler got a hard draw generally but when they didn’t even get

To play that game uh it makes tricky like even lenser had like lell away and not to have them at home was you know like there kind of things you’re kind of going oh is that right or is that wrong I always felt like that was that’s a

Tough break to get as one of the I always want to know how they decided who got that home fixed you know cuz obviously that could have been the other way around you know and like you yeah yeah yeah it’s a tricky the Press relase said it was a secret algorithm it

Is a secret algorithm fcy oler ended up playing the two French teams at home and the two English teams away which again sort of goes against logic you would think it would be uh one and then the other you know but apparently it was it was an algorithm that took into consideration

Lots of things including where you were the week before domestic schedules things like that and it spot out these fixtures so us were doubly shafted then I really think CU you ideally the two French team team at home but see they were going to lose it to lose anyway so

By by playing them away no I’m telling you by playing them away it means you get one of the English teams at home who you might have a better chance of beating that’s how if I was you know handpicking an olster draw the first

Thing I saw when I had saw they had two loose at home I like oh you don’t want to waste one of your fixtures on a team you’re probably not going to beat anyway that’s to defeat his attitude but I’m not aner player I’m just saying that

From as a kind of a kind of a I always think try to win every game but I actually think on reflection you’re definitely right yeah you I think like it simultaneously made it more likely that they could have won off four games but also lose all four games and

Obviously they screed more towards the ladder you know yeah yeah yeah it’s funny I actually the secret algorithm is intriguing me now love to meet the secret algorithm yeah almost I told a flip of a coin that’s a secret algorithm and one thing I want to touch on before

We finish up with our moment of the week Joe Schmid uh Australia we had touched on it a couple of weeks ago wrote about the prospect of that coming into play it’s now been nailed on he signed up into the LI tour where I think maybe a possibility of extending that further

Depending on how it goes I’m really excited I must say I think it’s a great appointment austr Ruby’s crying out for someone like him I know he touched on it already about what we might do but you know what what do you think having been coached by him like you know you know

What you know I thought they should have had him in before Eddie Eddie um Eddie Jones I I’ve said that for a long time because I thought he wasn’t feeling the love with with New Zealand at all um but clearly they figured that out at the end

That he was going to be something that was going to be a value add to the setup there and he had a big impact at the World Cup for them so um yeah look I think it’s a brilliant appointment I think everything about him is exactly what Australia need they should have

Signed him up for a longer deal if you ask me I think um you know his love for the Grassroots of the game as well will be important like Australia is obviously a bigger country slightly uh than Ireland but he was able to travel down

To a games and all that kind of he will do that in his free time just because he loves rugby he something like that could really reinvigorate what’s happening in Australia because they’re obviously under massive pressure competing with all the other sports straight away straight off the bat but they’ve always

Been they always have brilliant athletes and they always have been really really creative and they’ve always done brilliant with proba probably you know they have bigger resources maybe than say the likes of us but with other the other bigger countries that they’ve traditionally been able to beat very consistently uh particularly when they

Were at in their PMP through the 80s and 90s um and the early 2000s In fairness as well um they were always able to make brilliant do with what they had in terms of of uh you know raw materials um someone like Joe I think is the perfect

Guy to kind of step in there and get the get everyone moving in in the right direction um you know he has is is did I hear his new Sephora coming in there in some capacity he’s a consultant yeah yeah so I think that’ll be helpful too

Even though I don’t always agree with all of new sora’s decisions um and some of how he’s probably acting with players behind the scenes I probably got a bit more insight into that than maybe other people but um you know I think they do work well together have a history he’ll

Know what Joe wants and Joe will know what he’ll get from from from new Sephora um I think it’s a brilliant appointment I’ve been calling for that for a long time down there I think he is exactly what they need and um sadly it didn’t come in time for the World Cup

But just time for the Lions tour for for us so hopefully he can get them competitive pretty quickly I can’t see how he can’t or he won’t be able to do that I think there’s still enough good players in Australia that they’ll be able to get things right now I do think

They have an issue at 10 which is a big problem for them Wonder Could our our froley would that be something that maybe uh Joe might come in that coffee shop in Midtown maybe you know the old Joey carry table something needs to happen anyway but yeah look I think

There’s um you know they have a few problem positions but other than that there’s still some good resources there and good players and I think he’ll get them moving in the right direction yeah and I said it like when we talked about last week I just think it would have

Been a shame if he had kind of written off into the sunset or done like you know rugby consulting or that well rugby Ro like I want to see him like on in a track suit he’s too good yeah he’s too good of a coach and yeah Jonathan like

You obviously spices up the line store Andy FR verus Joe Schmid in in two years time and it’s funny that Joe referred to himself as boring in the press conference like oh you know I’m a bit boring I think people think but even though he’s not a big character I I

Think he adds a lot of maybe from an Irish perspective more so cuz obviously we have the history with him but like it makes me like infinitely more interested in Australian rugby now that he’s at the helm even though he might not be an Eddie Jones style personality I suppose

Just his teams are interesting to me and I think interesting generally what do like do you agree no 100% like I do think the idea of Joe not being interesting has been cultivated by nobody more so than Joe himself like Joe wants to appear boring and has gone to

Some length to present himself as boring when I don’t think that he actually is at all but yeah Thursday morning like my first whenever I saw that news on Thursday was the lioner because I think we were all quite concerned about how interesting or not interesting this lion

T was going to be if Australia were the same Australia that we saw at the World Cup and I suppose the The journalistic Narrative if you like of faral against Schmidt all of a sudden Ratched the interest up in that the in that series tfold and you think back to you know the

Ireland team that he took over coming off the back of that uh last Six Nations under Dean kidney the lost to Italy uh you know he comes in the Autumn of 2013 and within what his third game Ireland nearly beat the All Blacks for the first time so I wouldn’t have any

Worries about him getting us or getting the most out of that Squad quickly bearing in mind that you know we’re 18 months away from this Lions turn ey a little bit more so I think he’ll improve them rapidly he may not just as as Luke sort

Of alluded to there he may not have the talent I think to uh really get them firing in a top one two three sides in the world sort of way just yet I don’t think the players are there but I think he will make them competitive which if

We’re going back to the World Cup you know they weren’t yeah and like we said we touched on this like was it last week or two weeks ago but you know the landscape has vastly changed in the rugby Championship Scott Robertson is coming in obviously

With a big you know kind of CV in personality but that’s a new coach Jack n Abra has gone you know K pom’s gone into Argentina so there a bit of flux generally so who’s to say that he can’t maybe hit the ground running and pick up

A few scals and as you say Jonathan they were so w for at the World Cup that it’s impossible to do any worse than that so at the very least they’ll be uh they’ll be more competitive I think okay we’re going to finish up now with the left

Wing moment of the week in association with Bank of Ireland um I think myself and luk are along similar lines giving Northampton a bit of Kudos do you want to go first with yours I think the drop goal Finn Smith drop goal is outstanding you know that was a a moment of

Brilliance um you know taking advantage of the Win It was kind of stag game had kind of stagnated but it was a huge huge lift I thought that gave them belief to go on and kind of kick on and um yeah I thought he was brilliant interesting to

See what what his career shape he’s obviously a young guy and Northampton seemed to be in a good place as I mentioned earlier on um and um yeah I was delighted to see obviously obviously want to see monster win but I was delighted to see him have a big day out

It’s great to see these young talents kind of emerging and interesting to see how far he goes in the game so he’s someone now that I would have known about but I’ll be watching closely so that was a great moment I think yeah I think I’m mine was just for Northampton

Winning generally just because the their record against monester in tomman park was so poor obviously the famous Rog drop goal was one game but they I think they’ve lost five out of five they played in town park and over the last couple of years they in the Champions

Cup they I found them like a real kind of frustrating team they’ve just been like they’ve lost like to ler loads of times getting beaten out the gate they haven’t really added anything to the tournament for quite a long time and they’ve been quite a soft team play good

Ruby but couldn’t really roll up the sleeves and dig out you know tough wins the top of the Premiership at the moment and playing really well but it was just the kind coaching box after they sure yeah cuz I think I think philon said it

It was the steel they showed on the road 14 men like for me that’s much more impressive than beating exor 42 36 three weeks ago in a you know 15 try basketball game this was like I think they scored what two tries one was from

A mall one was from a snipe and then they kiic they kicked their goals was a kind of an old school kind of victory that and Courtney laws was fantastic so I just thought for them to kind of get that win I think they lost home and we

To moner last year so getting that win and obviously they played them again in the last 16 which will be interesting Jonathan I’ll give you the last word what was your moment of the week I was tempted to say just getting home after the Thomas Ramos s lose a second

Try the Jack Willis turnover the DuPont grubber through and then the Thomas Ramos chip ahead the commentators weren’t really giv it enough love this were sort of saying very lucky bouns for him to execute that uh chip over the top of the last Defender I thought was an incredible

Piece of skill and from a player in Ramos who’s been playing out of position really since uh since anak’s been injured but the the link between him and Dupont at nine and 10 for to lose has been uh probably just across the whole pool stages not just in that uh in that

Bath game for me has been uh one of the real real highlights of the last uh I suppose six weeks really yeah Thomas Ramos has been is like he’s he’s become one of the best players in the world obviously he’s been playing for quite a long time now but the last like two

Years or so he’s just been lights out he’s been so good Jee sorry got so excited um I think the kicking is what impressed me most with off the deck he looks like so solid he looks like he’s never going to miss one but to be able

To switch between 15 and 10 like that pretty seamlessly in big games um yeah know that he he’s a great player yeah great player really really good to see that just when when you see a guy been able to play multiple positions at the top level tells you he’s a footballer

You know yeah it was actually good to see jupon playing so well at the weekend and knowing that he will not be there in two weeks time now I know Maxim luchu has been playing pretty well for Bordeaux and himself and Jal like be the halfback ping but yeah that that was one

That was one positive for the weekend but for now I to thank Luke and Jonathan for joining me on this week’s episode of left wing podcast we will be back next week with plenty of podcasts looking ahead to the opening Six Nations game against France until then you can

Subscribe to us on Spotify Apple podcast or listen on independent.ie so until next time thanks for listening and goodbye

The final round of the Champions Cup pool stage and round of 16 ties are up for discussion on the latest episode of The Left Wing podcast.

Jonathan Bradley joins Luke Fitzgerald and Will Slattery to pick through Ulster’s heavy defeat to Harlequins and to assess whether the northern province is better off in the Challenge Cup.

Munster’s collapse against Northampton, Leinster’s win in Leicester and Joe Schmidt’s move to Australia are all on the agenda too, and the lads give their moment of the week in association with Bank of Ireland.

Listen and follow on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.