Cool story man. Mitch still sucks ass in the playoffs and turns the puck over like it’s his job.
I do agree the Pasternak goal was not his fault. Rielly was caught sleeping who had a horrible… ATROCIOUS series from him overall.
Reggae4Triceratops
Does Oates know that Marner doesn’t have to only pass on the powerplay??? Your teammates aren’t burying it? Fucking do it yourself then.
Edit: OP is a pussy ass for blocking me over this comment lmao. Even talking shit in a different subreddit, so I guess he perused my history too what a weirdo š¤·
Edit: nvm it’s probably just another burner. /u/CancerFreeLeafs appears to be the same guy as /u/ptgrvmrdrdjhnsn aka /u/Knieanderthal aka /u/TrelivingTheDream aka /u/LeafsRealist.
Specialist_Two_2783
The other thing is, it doesn’t have to be about “blaming” anybody. Someone can be a great player and it can still make sense for the team to trade them, because it just isn’t the right mix of players. Why everyone has to obsess about “who’s to blame” is tired. The mix of the core 4 has not worked when it has needed to, despite regular season success. At the end of the day the team needs a shakeup.
Redragontoughstreet
Is Adam oats part of Marners private security?
RattledRed
Is this guy okay?…
Available-Put-8793
Adam Oates is one of those guys whoās never wrong so take this how you will
Ihopeidontpeemyself
“It’s never one guy” well if you’re getting paid like 2-3 guys you’re going to be expected to play like you’re more than one guy.
crushade
Okay. So on the season ending goal, it wasnāt Marners fault. Sure. I didnāt think it was to begin with. Thatās not the problem.
The problem is that he was invisible and has been during times when we need him to step up. His playstyle is not helping us win. Heās an amazing player. Heās not amazing on this team during the times we need him.
Someone posted some stats of the core guys in the playoffs. Look at his numbers, most of his goals and assists come early in the series. I donāt hate the guy, itās clear the mix isnāt working and you have to make changes. You going to get rid of Nylander or Matthews? Or Marner? In a world without a cap, you can keep Marner. Thatās not this reality.
Soggy_Specific4093
The yelling was about Willy messing up a set face off play off a clean draw and probably frustration about going down 3-1 and not being able to produce.
He was supposed to give it to MO but gave it McCabe instead because if you watch it McCabe tryās to quickly one touch it to MO but everyone is out of sorts.
Also youāre given tougher matchups because they believe you can outproduce that matchup and Mitch just hasnāt done it. Sure he been decent defensively but heās paid to produce offensive as well.
fancypants55
Either way heāll suck our cap dry a year from now if we keep him. We might as well get something for him that will give us a different look.Ā
And with his NMC. Any team can offer him 8 years and thereās always a team willing to overpay which will be the key to him waiving since he probably chase the moneyĀ
Amihighordrunk905
Ya but what does Adam oates know about hockey…
reggierock2010
Honestly alll I got out of this is our PP needs to be better lol. Heās right if we go 5/20 on the PP we win that series and our top guys probably have 4-5 more points each and no one is complaining. MLSE needs to flex their financial muscle and hire the god dam best PP assistant coach money can buy.
87davidwilson
“That market”… it feels like we are our own worst enemy sometimes.
J_Bizzle82
I mean, Mitch didnāt dump the puck out and get a delay of game penalty this playoffs, so thereās that?
Movieandtvfan
I will not accept Nylander criticism. Dude missed 3 games with a migraine came back not a 100 percent and STILL lead the team in playoff goals. I no longer have patience for Nylander haters, fuck off.
GritGrinder
Iād take Nylander over marner any day of the week regardless of what happened in this one isolated play.
MaleficentLeader457
Honestly, I couldnt agree more. I know Marners soft but I still would rather keep him and get ride of Tavares if thats even possible. If we could ride of Tavares contract this year, I would keep Marner.
wesley-osbourne
“If they went 5 for 20 they’d still be playing right now. If he had 3 more points… 4 more points… they wouldn’t be complaining now, would they?”
Yeah, and if my grandma had wheels she’d be a fuckin’ bike.
hotstickywaffle
He’s right. It’s not all on Marner.
But at the end of the day something big needs to change, something with the core. They aren’t trading one of the guys they just signed to big extensions. They probably can’t trade Reilly. So Marner needs to go, and maybe Tavares.
Regardless of what you think of him as a player or how much of the teams’ struggles is on him, the simple math of the situation dictates that he has to go for them to make significant changes.
SilentioRS
As a caps fan, I can confidently tell you that Oates is talking out of his ass nearly all of the time. Dude was a great player but is notorious for finding almost completely irrelevant things (like stick curve) to justify his player evaluations.
NO_NAME_BRAN
Even if Marners on ice production werenāt an issue (and it has been in a massive way), what do we expect to happen for his next contract (if he chooses to stay)? Is anyone going to be surprised that heās going to demand Matthews money??
Heās an issue on the ice. Hes an issue off the ice in terms of contract. Offload him now and get what you can.
Hectordoink
The NHL version of the āthin blue line.ā
adwrx
Nylander over Marner every single day of the week. Marner doesn’t score and he is predictable in the playoffs.
davidewan_
I don’t think he was 100% from the high ankle sprain.
BuffytheBison
If Mitch took a team friendly deal (or there was no salary cap) he wouldn’t get nearly the amount of scrutiny lol
sametrical
Love this
nerd_account
Hot take:
I kinda agree with him.
justaperson815
Raptors did pretty well after trading a core guy. There’s no championship without the Kawai trade
sleep-diversion
Marner is a great player….from October to April.
I dump him and the entourage tomorrow.
bcw_83
How many times did Oates even watch him? Highlight packages? How many times did Marner go to chase a puck in the boards and then bailed out? How many times did Marner throw out a predictable pass on the Powerplay when he should have taken a shot? How many times was he effectively neutralized when any pressure is put on him with the puck on his stick? It’s a recurring theme and he disappears when it matters most and you can’t pay an assist machine winger 10-13 million a year on this already cap starved roster.
BlackSheepWolfPack
Oates tried to make Ovechkin a RW and flamed out as hard as I’ve seen a coach flame out. I truly couldn’t give less of a fuck about what he has to say
HamiltonCanada
It is unfortunate for the players that the team is flawed and expectations were never adjusted accordingly to acknowledge the failure of the team construction. The prior GM Dubas tried to pre-empt a salary cap increase which never happened, which meant bargain shopping to fill out the roster (that is bad). THEN, to even compound his error he decided to start spending assets at trade deadlines, with spending more and more each year leaving the cupboards bare (also bad). The players are paying for these errors. Not having money to spend on a #1 goalie , not having money to get a true #1 defenseman… no money for that third line centre. Not a lot of prospects coming up on small contracts to fill out that roster. (There are some but besides Knies and Woll none of them have been impactful, and even Woll has been too hurt to be considered impactful imo).
On the last play of the game, Marner was not solely to blame and frankly, he should take little blame. Samsonov, the F1 who changed and Reilly with Samsonov taking most of the blame. That angle … he should have read that better and reacted faster to poke it away, a confident goalie on top of his game would have made that play.
Marner likely will be asked to waive his NTC to be dealt – he probably wont accept. He will not accept a team friendly deal around $8M so he will not be re-signed. He will go on to play for a really good team, win a cup and eat hot dogs from it to troll the Leafs. I hope that doesn’t happen, but it seems like such a Leaf thing to have happen.
jinnnnnemu
You know I think maybe Mitch Marner should be trade that’s right a guy who’s defended Mitch Marner plenty of times on this sub is actually saying let’s trade him because I honestly want to see Auston Matthews goal production drop and plummet that’s right you heard me I want Austin Matthews to score 30 goals this season not 60 or maybe even less because you know 80% of all first assists of Matthew’s goals come from Mitch Marner so go ahead trade him , make future Leafs fans cry . Fuck Toxic Leaf fans.
margifly
Itās always easy to criticize the loss instead of a gain.
TheThirdShmenge
Nylander didnāt yell at him. Nylander told him to stop being a fucking baby. Which is exactly what he was being.
rgiunta
Thatās it Adam. Keeping pumping Mitchās tires before we trade him. Inflate the value.
areu_kiddingme
He makes some good points. Especially the āif anyone who knows hockeyā part but I know itāll go over a lot of this fanbaseās heads
Choptober_
lol I wonder if Adam Oates is the ex head coach that Berube is rumoured to want on his staff.
HeftyNugs
It’s not all Marner’s fault and to be honest I don’t know if this team is better without him and I’d like to see how he performs with a coach more suited for this group, but clearly something has to change. That said, this idea the QoC is somehow predictive of anything needs to stop. Quality of teammates is also not necessarily a major point of predictive data, but Marner plays with Matthews and typically one other guy that is no slouch. The quality of your teammates is a way more constant variable than quality of competition. It’s the same with zone starts. Who cares what percentage of zone starts a player gets? Over 50% of a player’s shifts start *on-the-fly*. People often look at these as some sort of indication that a player is x type of player when those kind of inferences are not certain or necessarily even likely.
i-like-your-hair
Oates is missing the point. Itās never just Marner. No one is saying that. Weāre not one player away. Weāre not getting rid of one player away, either.
However, heās pretty much always part of the problem at this time of year. Heās one of several common denominators, and heās the common denominator that makes the most. Obviously, whether youāre a Toronto Maple Leaf or an Orlando Solar Bear or anything in between, if you make more than 90% of the league yet are a consistent liability in the playoffs, youāre going to be scrutinized.
Unless, of course, some has-been makes contrarian takes for the sake of padding his retirement fund.
hockey3331
Nylander’s production drops by like 5-6%. Which is in line with most players – Crosby’s offensive production over his career also takes a small hit in the playoffs.
Marner’s production tanks by 20-30% in the playoffs. Thats a fact. Matthews’ production tanks a similar amount too, and his goal scoring almost halves in the playoffs.Ā
With how tight the playoffs are and how much these guys are paid, theres no excuse that fly: these guys, on this team, aren’t working out in the playoffs.
Szwedo
100% agree with everything. Oates was a high iq player too so he probably sees this. But he’s also speaking to someone who shares his playstyle.
I still will scapegoat Marner because his contract did not age so great, was never good to begin with.
42 Comments
Cool story man. Mitch still sucks ass in the playoffs and turns the puck over like it’s his job.
I do agree the Pasternak goal was not his fault. Rielly was caught sleeping who had a horrible… ATROCIOUS series from him overall.
Does Oates know that Marner doesn’t have to only pass on the powerplay??? Your teammates aren’t burying it? Fucking do it yourself then.
Edit: OP is a pussy ass for blocking me over this comment lmao. Even talking shit in a different subreddit, so I guess he perused my history too what a weirdo š¤·
Edit: nvm it’s probably just another burner. /u/CancerFreeLeafs appears to be the same guy as /u/ptgrvmrdrdjhnsn aka /u/Knieanderthal aka /u/TrelivingTheDream aka /u/LeafsRealist.
The other thing is, it doesn’t have to be about “blaming” anybody. Someone can be a great player and it can still make sense for the team to trade them, because it just isn’t the right mix of players. Why everyone has to obsess about “who’s to blame” is tired. The mix of the core 4 has not worked when it has needed to, despite regular season success. At the end of the day the team needs a shakeup.
Is Adam oats part of Marners private security?
Is this guy okay?…
Adam Oates is one of those guys whoās never wrong so take this how you will
“It’s never one guy” well if you’re getting paid like 2-3 guys you’re going to be expected to play like you’re more than one guy.
Okay. So on the season ending goal, it wasnāt Marners fault. Sure. I didnāt think it was to begin with. Thatās not the problem.
The problem is that he was invisible and has been during times when we need him to step up. His playstyle is not helping us win. Heās an amazing player. Heās not amazing on this team during the times we need him.
Someone posted some stats of the core guys in the playoffs. Look at his numbers, most of his goals and assists come early in the series. I donāt hate the guy, itās clear the mix isnāt working and you have to make changes. You going to get rid of Nylander or Matthews? Or Marner? In a world without a cap, you can keep Marner. Thatās not this reality.
The yelling was about Willy messing up a set face off play off a clean draw and probably frustration about going down 3-1 and not being able to produce.
He was supposed to give it to MO but gave it McCabe instead because if you watch it McCabe tryās to quickly one touch it to MO but everyone is out of sorts.
Also youāre given tougher matchups because they believe you can outproduce that matchup and Mitch just hasnāt done it. Sure he been decent defensively but heās paid to produce offensive as well.
Either way heāll suck our cap dry a year from now if we keep him. We might as well get something for him that will give us a different look.Ā
And with his NMC. Any team can offer him 8 years and thereās always a team willing to overpay which will be the key to him waiving since he probably chase the moneyĀ
Ya but what does Adam oates know about hockey…
Honestly alll I got out of this is our PP needs to be better lol. Heās right if we go 5/20 on the PP we win that series and our top guys probably have 4-5 more points each and no one is complaining. MLSE needs to flex their financial muscle and hire the god dam best PP assistant coach money can buy.
“That market”… it feels like we are our own worst enemy sometimes.
I mean, Mitch didnāt dump the puck out and get a delay of game penalty this playoffs, so thereās that?
I will not accept Nylander criticism. Dude missed 3 games with a migraine came back not a 100 percent and STILL lead the team in playoff goals. I no longer have patience for Nylander haters, fuck off.
Iād take Nylander over marner any day of the week regardless of what happened in this one isolated play.
Honestly, I couldnt agree more.
I know Marners soft but I still would rather keep him and get ride of Tavares if thats even possible.
If we could ride of Tavares contract this year, I would keep Marner.
“If they went 5 for 20 they’d still be playing right now. If he had 3 more points… 4 more points… they wouldn’t be complaining now, would they?”
Yeah, and if my grandma had wheels she’d be a fuckin’ bike.
He’s right. It’s not all on Marner.
But at the end of the day something big needs to change, something with the core. They aren’t trading one of the guys they just signed to big extensions. They probably can’t trade Reilly. So Marner needs to go, and maybe Tavares.
Regardless of what you think of him as a player or how much of the teams’ struggles is on him, the simple math of the situation dictates that he has to go for them to make significant changes.
As a caps fan, I can confidently tell you that Oates is talking out of his ass nearly all of the time. Dude was a great player but is notorious for finding almost completely irrelevant things (like stick curve) to justify his player evaluations.
Even if Marners on ice production werenāt an issue (and it has been in a massive way), what do we expect to happen for his next contract (if he chooses to stay)? Is anyone going to be surprised that heās going to demand Matthews money??
Heās an issue on the ice. Hes an issue off the ice in terms of contract. Offload him now and get what you can.
The NHL version of the āthin blue line.ā
Nylander over Marner every single day of the week. Marner doesn’t score and he is predictable in the playoffs.
I don’t think he was 100% from the high ankle sprain.
If Mitch took a team friendly deal (or there was no salary cap) he wouldn’t get nearly the amount of scrutiny lol
Love this
Hot take:
I kinda agree with him.
Raptors did pretty well after trading a core guy. There’s no championship without the Kawai trade
Marner is a great player….from October to April.
I dump him and the entourage tomorrow.
How many times did Oates even watch him? Highlight packages? How many times did Marner go to chase a puck in the boards and then bailed out? How many times did Marner throw out a predictable pass on the Powerplay when he should have taken a shot? How many times was he effectively neutralized when any pressure is put on him with the puck on his stick? It’s a recurring theme and he disappears when it matters most and you can’t pay an assist machine winger 10-13 million a year on this already cap starved roster.
Oates tried to make Ovechkin a RW and flamed out as hard as I’ve seen a coach flame out. I truly couldn’t give less of a fuck about what he has to say
It is unfortunate for the players that the team is flawed and expectations were never adjusted accordingly to acknowledge the failure of the team construction. The prior GM Dubas tried to pre-empt a salary cap increase which never happened, which meant bargain shopping to fill out the roster (that is bad). THEN, to even compound his error he decided to start spending assets at trade deadlines, with spending more and more each year leaving the cupboards bare (also bad). The players are paying for these errors. Not having money to spend on a #1 goalie , not having money to get a true #1 defenseman… no money for that third line centre. Not a lot of prospects coming up on small contracts to fill out that roster. (There are some but besides Knies and Woll none of them have been impactful, and even Woll has been too hurt to be considered impactful imo).
On the last play of the game, Marner was not solely to blame and frankly, he should take little blame. Samsonov, the F1 who changed and Reilly with Samsonov taking most of the blame. That angle … he should have read that better and reacted faster to poke it away, a confident goalie on top of his game would have made that play.
Marner likely will be asked to waive his NTC to be dealt – he probably wont accept. He will not accept a team friendly deal around $8M so he will not be re-signed. He will go on to play for a really good team, win a cup and eat hot dogs from it to troll the Leafs. I hope that doesn’t happen, but it seems like such a Leaf thing to have happen.
You know I think maybe Mitch Marner should be trade that’s right a guy who’s defended Mitch Marner plenty of times on this sub is actually saying let’s trade him because I honestly want to see Auston Matthews goal production drop and plummet that’s right you heard me I want Austin Matthews to score 30 goals this season not 60 or maybe even less because you know 80% of all first assists of Matthew’s goals come from Mitch Marner so go ahead trade him , make future Leafs fans cry . Fuck Toxic Leaf fans.
Itās always easy to criticize the loss instead of a gain.
Nylander didnāt yell at him. Nylander told him to stop being a fucking baby. Which is exactly what he was being.
Thatās it Adam. Keeping pumping Mitchās tires before we trade him. Inflate the value.
He makes some good points. Especially the āif anyone who knows hockeyā part but I know itāll go over a lot of this fanbaseās heads
lol I wonder if Adam Oates is the ex head coach that Berube is rumoured to want on his staff.
It’s not all Marner’s fault and to be honest I don’t know if this team is better without him and I’d like to see how he performs with a coach more suited for this group, but clearly something has to change. That said, this idea the QoC is somehow predictive of anything needs to stop. Quality of teammates is also not necessarily a major point of predictive data, but Marner plays with Matthews and typically one other guy that is no slouch. The quality of your teammates is a way more constant variable than quality of competition. It’s the same with zone starts. Who cares what percentage of zone starts a player gets? Over 50% of a player’s shifts start *on-the-fly*. People often look at these as some sort of indication that a player is x type of player when those kind of inferences are not certain or necessarily even likely.
Oates is missing the point. Itās never just Marner. No one is saying that. Weāre not one player away. Weāre not getting rid of one player away, either.
However, heās pretty much always part of the problem at this time of year. Heās one of several common denominators, and heās the common denominator that makes the most. Obviously, whether youāre a Toronto Maple Leaf or an Orlando Solar Bear or anything in between, if you make more than 90% of the league yet are a consistent liability in the playoffs, youāre going to be scrutinized.
Unless, of course, some has-been makes contrarian takes for the sake of padding his retirement fund.
Nylander’s production drops by like 5-6%. Which is in line with most players – Crosby’s offensive production over his career also takes a small hit in the playoffs.
Marner’s production tanks by 20-30% in the playoffs. Thats a fact. Matthews’ production tanks a similar amount too, and his goal scoring almost halves in the playoffs.Ā
With how tight the playoffs are and how much these guys are paid, theres no excuse that fly: these guys, on this team, aren’t working out in the playoffs.
100% agree with everything. Oates was a high iq player too so he probably sees this. But he’s also speaking to someone who shares his playstyle.
I still will scapegoat Marner because his contract did not age so great, was never good to begin with.