#z8 #d850 #nikon
Some are calling this the new D850 moment, myself included. I go through a long look at how these two epic allrounders compare. It is not an exhaustive look, but covers a lot of ground. How do you think they compare?
Other notable things worth mentioning are the OVF and EVF experience are very different, with pros and cons for both, these days I prefer an EVF. Please let me know if there is anything else I should add to the full look at Z8 vs D850.
00:00 Intro
00:15 Z8 Vs D850
00:40 Size difference
02:00 Both 45.7 MP but …?
02:30 What is the difference between sensor on D850 and Z8
02:50 Sensor Shield
03:00 Stacked BSI vs BSI
03:45 In-depth look at sensors, D850, Z 9 / Z 8 and Z 7
04:00 How do these sensors perform?
04:45 How does IBIS affect this equation?
05:25 What about HDR or bracketing?
06:33 Could a high speed mirrorless do two frame HDR’ invisibly’?
07:05 DXO Charts Colour Sensitivity
07:20 Tonal Range
07:30 Dynamic Range
07:50 SNR 18%
08:18 ISO Sensitivity
08:47 Who are Nikons competitors?
09:30 Sony A1 and Z9 / Z8 are rated the same with DXO
09:45 Canon R5 comes in at 95 with DXO vs 98 for Z9 / Z8 and A1
10:30 Stacked sensors will perform better
11:05 Why does Nikon keep making 45.7MP cameras?
11:30 45.7 MP seems to be an all-rounder resolution.
12:25 8K video works well at this size
13:10 Diffraction is another reason why 45.7MP makes sense
13:40 A close look at diffraction in Capture One with the Sony A7 R V
14:50 60.2 MP vs 45.7 does not look that different
15:40 Is there an advantage to those extra MP’s?
16:00 What are these strange rings in the Sony Image?
18:15 Does the extra MP matter?
19:00 Do we want higher MP file sizes?
20:09 Why is this a D850 moment?
21:22 45.7MP is THE SWEET SPOT !!!
22:18 All the different AF detection modes
22:50 Much faster frame rates
23:33 Pre-Capture
24:00 Z 8 video spec much higher than D850
24:20 Card slot situation?
24:50 IBIS
26:00 I/O
26:30 Grip comfort and button layout
27:40 Yes they have different screen types
28:00 The gap between these cameras will expand
28:40 THIS IS A D850 moment +++ !!
29:45 Your turn to comment
30:07 F glass in most cases works even better on Z 8
Some are calling this the new D850 moment, myself included. I go through a long look at how these two epic allrounders compare. It is not an exhaustive look, but covers a lot of ground. How do you think they compare?
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40 Comments
I covered a lot but not it all. For example battery life will be better on the D850. And the mirrorless and shutterless Z8, can be 100% silent and has ZERO vibration. Please let me know if I missed anything else and I will add it here
Matt, I'm still waiting for some true side by side image comparisons. So far we've seen 10s of YouTube videos comparing the features and specs and only a handful of image comparisons. From those few comparisons I have found, the image quality is comparable. Z8 may have the edge, but it's not night and day as I had hoped.
If however, performance is important to the buyer over image quality, then the Z8 definitely takes the cake. The 20fps RAW is amazing, the auto-focus is much faster and dare I say more accurate vs the D850. I'm personally on the fence. I'd benefit from the performance improvements but with image quality being near equal, I'm not so sure it's worth dropping $4k for a D850 replacement. Maybe we should all hold out for the D8 MkII or a Z-something else with a bigger MP sensor and marked image improvement…
Got the D800 and D500 and still it doesn't make sense for me to upgrade as a hobby photographer. But, in a few years, if things get more affordable, the Z8 looks very very interesting to me and I almost even think about to spare money for it as the first Z – system investment. Maybe no further F-System upgrade to a D850 necessary?
…But the D850 probably will drop significantly..🤔
Nice Matt, thanks! (One minor correction: at 17’40 you said that the release modes on the D850 left dial were now on the iMenu etc. Yes, but more usefully they are available using the Z8’s “release selector” button (top left) and moving the main dial plus the front dial for sub selections…)
d850
It is evident that the term "astonishingly" has been employed frequently in your discourse. However, despite possessing a D850 previously and currently owning a Z7 with a Z8 on pre-order, I fail to perceive substantial advancements in technology. In my view, true progress would manifest in the form of a high dynamic range (HDR) raw image that effectively captures both highlights and shadows, thereby providing users with ample data for manipulation within a single RAW image. The improvement in ISO and signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) is noticeably stagnant, which leaves me questioning the lack of astonishment. While I appreciate your comprehensive reviews and have diligently followed them for the Z8, I am not inclined to be a mere fan boy. Additionally, when considering lens development, it is disheartening to observe the absence of a 14 mm 1.4 option for avid astrophotography enthusiasts. Are cameras exclusively tailored to sports and action photography? What about other genres and styles? Sony, for instance, offers lenses such as the 12-24 and 16-35, along with a 14 mm 1.4 variant. Consequently, it appears that Nikon has merely sustained itself without undergoing significant evolution.
Well, fair's fair, this was really interesting and informative and an eye opening with the sensor comparison. It's so easy to get hung up on the numbers. What this reminds us is it's the images that count.
i sold my d850, waiting for z8! i`ll never look back for sure
I have z6ii and am considering a z8. Having a tough time with price point
@16:20 those rings look like Airy discs, which represents the light intensity due to diffraction of an idealised infinitely small aperture — to other scientists, this is the ideal 2D convolution response to an infinite impulse response. Cameras are known for having less accurate apertures as they stop down (i.e. a reported f/16 has a larger error range 15.5-16.5 than if it was at f/2 with an error range 1.95-2.05). Given the ring response I would imagine the Sony has an even smaller aperture.
Have Z6 and getting Z8 as main camera. Just got rung up today to say waiting for me to pick up.
I’m a little stunned that my Z8 is already on the way. I thought they’d be back ordered for a little bit. Now I’m feeling buyers remorse. I love the d850 but I am really ready to go full in on the mirrorless system and that’s why I’m thinking of upgrading. I know I want to go mirrorless and I was waiting for a mirrorless in the form of a d850, so maybe I should just stick with this
Owning a D850 yo me it’s biggest shortcoming is terrible focus issues shooting 4K vid. But in camera stabilization on the Z8 is very attractive as well as it would make all of my lenses VR so to speak👍
A7R5 or Z8 which one is better?
the rings are called airy disk, a diffraction ring caused by light passing through a small circular aperture. Diameter of the airy disk on the sensor is appr. 2.44*wavelength*F number.
Nevertheless, I am a huge fan of high megapixel cameras (if still image is the only goal). With diffraction considered, high megapixel cameras indeed get higher resolution in large apeture scenarios.
I am very lucky. I am able to afford a D850, Z8 & Z9. So happy with all three.
How is the price difference? If you just use camera For landscape D850 can be enough, if you want to shoot flying birds you should consider Z8. We don’t want sale propaganda for Nikon!
Let me ask this question why do we rely on photo shop etc if this is so good surely it's in eye of the beholder like a Artist who paints with his or her own eye I believe these photo applications is a form of cheating you not seeing what camera is taking
My D850 is a work horse. I just got my third one. I am very very happy with D850. Z8 seems tempting but I feel that the work I do it is not that much upgrade for me. I am not a fan of electronic shutter.
The Z8 is amazing, no question. Nobody really needs more camera than that! But… (and this is a personal "but") the D850 has much better battery life (something you will appreciate when traveling), optical viewfinders are easy on the eyes and I am enjoying them much more than EVF's (looked through a Z9 and didn't like it, but I've become picky) and lastly I am really loving the color output of the D850. All mirrorless Z cameras I have tried had the same brownish green color cast that I just can't unsee anymore (I'm too stupid to fix it in post :)). But that is personal preference of course. Overall there is no denying that the Z8 is an amazing upgrade but for me the Z8 unfortunately comes with some downgrades that take away some of the magic I experience with the D850. Thanks for the video!
People don't realize how important is processing power. D850 specs are almost the same as Z8/Z9 but processing is so much faster on Z8/Z9. It's like night and day difference.
Pixel counting. Well – pros don't seem to worry about pixel counting as much as amateurs do. And there's probably a reason – they KNOW more!
Personally – I'm pretty happy with some of my "lesser" cameras, have around 26 MP. And I've occasionally come across an explanation. The more pixels, the smaller they are. The smaller they are, the less they can store – so while there might me more of them, the quality of the information they each contain cannot be the same.
Anyway – that's all "techo stuff'. I don't care. All I care about is whether I like THIS result more, or THAT one.
Another "criticism" I am seeing splattered here & there is "heating". Some early comments on the Z8 seem to be suggesting that if you go absolutely nuts with video on the Z8, it gets so hot you could cook your dinner on it. Apart from suggesting thats so obviously nuts that I refuse to even consider it – I don't care anyway. This is a "camera" – I'd only ever use it as a still camera. Well almost only. I can see SOME situations where I would use the video. Birds in flight – sports photography (not that I've done much – but I do see the point). But NOT to make a 12 minute video clip. And I can't imagine shooting between 100 and 200 images, just so I can select "the perfect one", is capable of causing this alleged "warming problem". So I still don't care.
What I DO see, is Nikon's brilliant new lens coupling. Which introduces several MAJOR improvements. Lighter lenses – better lenses. The "shield" over the sensor. Virtual elimination of the old "shutter count" issue. A "better" sensor. Great AF – which I DO need, for a lot of the stuff I shoot – quite happy to shoot manual, still, provided the subject is stationary – but animas, birds, kids, vehicles, people – they all more around. Even flowers move in the wind.
So – conclusion. Yes I will get one. Not straight away, for budgetary reasons. Because I will need at least 3 lenses to justify the camera body. And the price piles up by then. But the Z8 introduces a range of improvements and, even though I am "happy" with my current gear, I do want to get the Z8 when I can.
Here in Europe the body of Z8 is 4500-4600 euros, while brand new D850 is 2200-2300 euros.
Meanwhile Tamron's 24-70 is 1200 euro while Nikkor Z mount 24-70 is 2000 euro.
For anyone who does not know it yet, Nikon uses Tamron's elements and casing to make new generation Z lenses.
Sure Z8 has few extra video gimmicks and tracking sensor, but is that worth additional investment 3000 euros over D850 ?
Not a chance in hell.
For the money difference I can have D850 for photo shoots and I can get dedicated camera for the video that will do far better job than Z8.
Still can't stand EVFs, so I can't go mirrorless until there is a major leap in technology.
I've just bought a S/H D850 which I've lusted over for years! I bought a Z5 to try last year and I'll sell it, I really hate electronic viewfinders and I felt I didn't have control, but I'll keep the FTZ2 to future proof, I have so many F lenses. I missed 2 updates between my amazing D700 and the D850 which i regret, but the D850 is a D700 + 4x the res, plus whatever else it is. But Z7/8/9 are all well out of my financial orbit! Thanks for a great site!
No one is putting out more informative content (that is easy to understand) on planet Nikon than you Matt
I’ve had the the d850 for yrs now and been waiting for the much awaited release of the Z8 . And I have now purchased it and awaiting it’s arrival. Can’t wait , looking forward to making the transition to mirrorless , thanks for your valuable insight
Regarding the rings in the diffraction section:
I have noticed Sony Cameras seem to do some correction on the readout level and seem to bake them in in the raw files. With an A6400 of a friend when comparing raw files I noticed signs of digital sharpening IN the raw files.
What we see here MIGHT be some sort of sharpening as well… maybe diffraction compensation baked into the raw files.
This always was my number one reason why I didn't like sony… the seem to make some of their processing non optional and even do it to the data before it is written as a raw file.
I went from a Z6 to a Z8 and I absolutely love it… only thing I'm missing is the possibility to override metering mode via an Fn Button. I liked to have a button to temporarily activate highlight saving mode.
I’ve been using a D850 for ages and as good as the Z8 is, as a landscape photographer it offers virtually nothing in terms of advancements for me. The D850 is still my ultimate tool of choice
I thought most people thought z7ii already better than d850. Z8 is better than the R3 and a1 in feature set, only video focus and nlog is still a bit behind sony video focus and slog3
I'm currently on a D500, maybe I will upgrade to one of those two bodies in some time. Could be that choosing to go directly to a Z8 is the smarter move.
Im so confused….I have not long started photography building kit up slowly. I want to stick with Nikon and currently have a D5600 mid range camera. The D850 was to be by next camera but given the new release of the Z8, do I save a bit more or stick to the D850 dream and wait a few years for the Z8. I don't do videos at all only photography….so difficult to know what to do
Man "pre-capture" sounds like Minority Report all over again 🙂 Great video!
Hello Matt, I’m a big Nikon fan. I started in the early 80’s with an EM, then an F3 high point, then jumped to a D80 my most favourite camera but now… well you convinced me to get myself the D850, but now ??? You’ve totally changed my mind and i now want the Z8 I think it will be my last camera and will last me another Twenty years which will mean I’ll be in my 80’s 🤪🤪🤪 so I just wanted to say thank you so much for your insight and expertise. Your a truly passionate person when it comes to your photography but you don’t baffle me with all the techno jargon others love to spew fourth 🤮🤮🤮 your honest, good natured and humorous approach is, for me, just right and I find you more listenable to than all the other YouTube photographers out there. Your NOT big headed or trying to be the best out there with snappy catchphrases or gimmicky trash. Your just you and I for one really like your approach to photography. You always think of the novice photographer. You might be in full flight technical jargon and then quick as a flash explain it for us slightly less fortunate chaps I’ll say 😉😉😉 anyway, keep up the fantastic work and please, PLEASE… don’t ever change your approach to your channel… as you keep saying with the Z8 perfection is hard to beat 🤪😍😂 take care and look after yourself, Kenny 😁🤩👍👍👍👍👍👍
You have to consider the fact that the D850 can be had in good condition used for a 1/4 of the price that the Z8 is new. You also have to consider whether you need everything that the Z8 offers. It’s impressive yesss… but, do you need it? If you’re a profesional maybe.. if you’re a hobbyist, probably not
Seeing as the Z9 and Z8 are so similar other than price point and some minor details in specs. Which would you recommend personally between the two?
I just bought a D850, and paid $800 for it, I will upgrade to the Z8 when I can get it at the same price 😇
I loved my d850. I sold them when I switched to the Z 7ii bodies. I just ordered my z8 last week.
For record the reason why the 24-70 2.8 Z vs F mount lenses are different sizes is because of F mount version does not telescope outwards like the Z version of memory serves me right. The Z lens when zoomed out to 70 focal range is almost 3-4 inches longer than at 24mm range.